Talk:Meditations on First Philosophy

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Contents 1 Invalid Argument 2 Confusion 3 Not in the book 4 Content Expansion 5 Objections & replies 6 Bias? 7 I think, therefore I am 8 Amazing article 9 Not actual translations 10 Subtitles

[edit] Invalid Argument

In the section on the first meditation, the article contains an argument

  1. If I am dreaming/deceived, then my beliefs are not true.
  2. I don't know whether I am dreaming/deceived.
  3. Therefore, I don't know whether my beliefs are true.

Which is invalid (compare with the following situation in which I see John eat some nuts, and go into an allergic reaction:

  1. If John is in anaphylaxic shock, he has eaten some nuts (this is true)
  2. I don't know whether John is in anaphylaxic shock (This is true: I don't even know what that means)
  3. Therefore, I don't know whether John ate any nuts (false - I saw him eat them)

) I'm pretty sure Descartes didn't make this argument.--NoizHed 12:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Confusion

I'm a bit confused. This article says in one spot that Meditations on First Philosophy was written after Discourse on Method. In another spot, it seems to apply that "Cogito Ergo Sum" was written as a response to criticism on Meditations. Specifically, the article states: "In one of Descartes' replies to objections to the book, he summed this up in the now-famous phrase, I think, therefore I am..."

Every other article regarding Descartes says that Cogito was first written in Discourse (Four years before Meditations!!)? - Patrick95350 04:47, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Not in the book

I changed the quote containing the (approximation of) the cogito to reflect what is actually said in the version of the Meditiations that is linked to at the bottom of the page (Meditation 2, paragraph 3). Baffledexpert 16:47, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Content Expansion

I've begun a major content expansion here. I plan on continuing with Meditations 3-6 later. uriah923^(talk) 03:16, 5 December 2005 (UTC) The summaries of the Meditations are finished. I may add a section to discuss the alleged accomplishments of the work and some issues, but I wonder if those should be saved for the article on Descartes. Thoughts? uriah923^(talk) 06:42, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Objections & replies

It would be great to expand this wikientry to include the a summary of the Objections & Replies. We could start with a summary of the Seven philosophers who submitted their objections...

I second that wholeheartedly. If it has not yet been added once I have given them deeper study, I'll do what I can.Kai 03:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kai Miller (talk • contribs) 03:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

This just in: I'm an idiot. It was already there. Tee-hee?Kai 03:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bias?

I've just read the article, and think there is a certain judgmental undertone to it. It feels like some author voices a rather disparaging opinion on the quality of Descartes' thinking and conclusion, for example the sentence "Along the way, he 'stumbles' upon another claimed logical proof of God's existence." and similar examples.

Any other opinions on that? If you agree with me, it might be a good idea to add a NPOV flag to the article. --TheOtherStephan 15:11, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I think "stumbles" accurately represents the way he describes the process in the book. uriah923^(talk) 19:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree - his purpose isn't to lay out an established argument, but to discover (both himself and the reader) the truth. "Stumble" would be the appropriate word to go along with both his writing style and his description of the discovery process. --Tim4christ17 06:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

'Stumbles' is not NPOV, but 'claimed logical' is. A better sentence would be "Along the way, he 'stumbles' upon another proof of God's existence."

[edit] I think, therefore I am

I changed, "I think, therefore I exist," to "I think, therefore I am." First, you can either go with the French to Latin to English translation of: "I am thinking, therefore I exist," or, more properly, the French to English translation of: "I think, therefore I am." The previous one was a mix of the two. Unsuspected 09:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amazing article

Probably the best I've read on the Wikipedia. I'd submit it as a Featured Article candidate, but am afraid it'd be destroyed in the process. --Tim4christ17 06:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not actual translations

This page entitled "meditations of First Pholosophy" is really a discussion of Descartes works. While we normally expect that an encyclopedia really is just a discussion or treatise on a subject, there is already a wikipedia section with the actual direct translations for many of Descartes works.

Now, in many ways, I believe this page is better, if at least more helpful, than the actual english translation (John Veitch Translation of 1901). Therefore, I would never suggest that this article be proposed for deletion, however, I would want any wikipedia readers who come upon this page to understand that the contents of this page are the post-modern analyses of Descartes work and not actual translations.

So, I'm proposing to the author that he edit the page only to add a short contextual disclaimer informing the reader that this page is a modern interpretaion of Descartes meditations. Then a link should be added to the actual John Veitch Translation of 1901, also found on wikipedia.

So then, the title of Meditation II shouldn't be "OF THE NATURE OF THE HUMAN MIND; AND THAT IT IS MORE EASILY KNOWN THAN THE BODY"?

I suspect the author of the above was referring to the text linked from Wikisources. I found much of this article to be a fairly straightforward summary; I suppose, however, that perhaps mention somewhere that this is the common modern interpretation (as opposed to elimination of any analysis at all) would not be out of line. Comments, convention experts?Kai 03:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subtitles

The subtitle listed in the first sentence is not a translation of the "original Latin" subtitle. Did the subtitle change at some point, and if so, shouldn't it be mentioned how and why? Otherwise, it looks like a gratuitous change was made in translation, and if that were the case, I would expect Wikipedia to keep with the original consistently. 128.253.231.119 02:21, 12 February 2007 (UTC)