Talk:Milton Berle

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No mention of his equipment? I imagine everyone else inclined to add it ran into the same problems I did, the twin questions of where to put it and how to phrase it. --Charles A. L. 18:17, Dec 10, 2003 (UTC)

Hard to put it tastefully —

"You know the old story about Milton and Forrest Tucker having big _______, right? I guess Berle and Tuck both had ones in the 12" to 16" neighborhood. The show biz guys all had a steam room they went to in New York. Jackie Gleason was horsing around one afternoon, and decided he wanted to measure them to see who’s was bigger. Berle allegedly had the advantage by about 2". Gleason said, "Come on Milt, just take enough out to win the bet for me."

Dick Shawn described being in the steam room with Berle this way, "I didn’t have my glasses on. I thought he had a small child standing next to him… until I realized it was his ______."

Speculation about his many conquests revolved around Hollywood housewives seeking revenge on philandering husbands. - Sparky 03:42, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

So, what's the story? Have we given up on trying to make any reference to the stories about his penis size? RMoloney (talk) 13:19, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Not sure it would fit into the article. The reference, that is.Bjones 14:33, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

---

"He was born in a five-story walkup at 68 West 118th Street." Where? —LarryGilbert 23:07, 2004 Mar 21 (UTC)

Thanks, Nunh-huh! —LarryGilbert

No prob. I wonder about the née vs ne in the first line, but I suppose I worry too much<G> - Nunh-huh 23:23, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

In fact, you're right. He wore a dress onstage, he wasn't actually a woman. --♥ «Charles A. L.» 01:24, Apr 16, 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Cleanup 2 Picture 3 Family Member adds some editing and additional info 4 tone work 5 That image ok? 6 Joke theft 7 Bill Berle 8 Bill Berle 9 1913 impersonation of Charlie Chaplin 10 Caricature 11 Re: SNL debacle & citation needed 12 Mendel?

[edit] Cleanup

I put cleanup tags on this article for several reasons. First, there are several cases where the style of the article is not what is expected of a WP article, i.e. having section headers like "Saturday Night Doomed" and "Goodbye Uncle Milty," or having sentences like "It was one of the finest performances in Berle's later life," or the whole last paragraph which offers an analysis of Berle's career that would be more at home in a research paper than an encyclopedia article.

There are instances of weasel words, as in "Berle's freewheeling, wildly antic style ensured his legend would outlive the show (which once owned America's home audience on Tuesday nights) and, some feel, his talent" (my italics).

Some of this wouldn't be too bad if the article cited sources. For instance, making the claim that "Milton Berle gave a new medium a shape that continues to be a reference point for both the best and the least of what that medium has since had to offer," really should be sourced as it is such a sweeping claim (it probably wouldn't be to difficult to find a notable critic who has said something like that. I mean, its Milton Berle!). A source for the remark about television sales probably should be sourced too, since without one, it seems like just a rumour.

All this seems to have been added by an anon on Jan. 20th, so it shouldn't be to difficult of a fix. If the above is strongly worded, I apologize, but I was rather jarred when I read this article.Gershwinrb 04:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Addendum: "glib" is the word I was looking for to describe parts of this article.Gershwinrb 20:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

I've removed the image that was on this page because it may not be fair use i.e. it was a screenshot from the Muppet Movie, and as licensed, can only be used for commentary on the movie. A publicity photo would be better. Gershwinrb 21:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Family Member adds some editing and additional info

I am the adopted son of Milton Berle. I went through some of the material on the Milton Berle page, and made some additions and corrections. Any of the official Wikipedia editors or qualified administrators who wish to may contact me directly to verify some or all of the facts and opinions I edited into the page. There are a couple of things that I put on the page that I would personally wish to see remain on the page. Qualified Wikipedia administrators can contact Bill Berle victorbravo (at) sbcglobal {dot} net .

Although Milton and I were estranged for the last few years of his life, I am very proud of his achievements and I want to have the stories told honestly.

For any of the others who posed questions about that thing of his, yes it was 100% true. A baby's arm holding an apple, as the old saying goes. I was adopted, so I got the sense of humor instead.

Bill Berle April 4, 2006

[edit] tone work

I worked on the tone up until the subheading "shooting star", this is long and tedious... I'm tired! Strongfaithin1 03:10, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I spent some time on this article tonight working on style/tone and trying to make it flow better. If William Berle is reading this, I hope I have been true to the spirit of your additions. There is still quite a bit of work to be done on this article to bring it up to code; maybe I'll add more later. Clarke Ingram, webmaster of the DuMont Television Network web site 152.163.100.199 05:45, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] That image ok?

I uploaded an photo of him... you guys approve? Ben Tibbetts 22:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joke theft

I've heard from at least a couple of sources, I think, that Berle had a reputation for using other comics' material and perhaps implicitly claiming it as his own -- earning him the sobriquet "The Thief of Bad-Gags." I don't have any citation. One of my sources may have been my late father, who worked on the periphery of show business as a theatrical photographer.

[edit] Bill Berle

I edited this pretty heavily today, adding the infobox and a section on his early life to conform better to WP's biography style.

I also removed this paragraph, near the end:

While Berle's manic style may seem dated today, many TV styles are doomed to a short life, and Berle's career was among the first to show that the TV audience was extremely fickle. Nevertheless, Berle helped shape the new medium. He continues to be a reference point in the history of television, and he stands as a memorable icon of its early years.

I understand that material like this (giving either a positive or negative opinion instead of WP:NPOV) shouldn't be deleted but moved to this talk page instead. I also removed some of the citations, because they were all to the same online biographical article – but even worse is that they didn't have any relationship to the parts of this article they are supposed to support.

I'm also uncertain about how to treat Mr. Bill Berle's additions. I have little doubt that he has given accurate information and I certainly don't intend to offend him, but I'm concerned about WP:CITE, WP:VERIFY, and WP:NOR. How does one cite himself or herself as a source? Does providing personal stories and memories count as original research? If not, why not - isn't a personal memory unverifiable? I've read all three of the applicable policies and I'm still unsure what to do. I've left the material alone for now, but I'd like to see what others think, since I'm a relative newcomer and I haven't personally met this issue prior to now. Perhaps it too should be moved here, to the talk page. BaseballBaby 23:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bill Berle

Hi Bill any chance of contacting you. Maybe if you put a post on Imdb at Miltons page. i could respond and give you my email address. i'd love to chat John

[edit] 1913 impersonation of Charlie Chaplin

"His onstage antics got underway in 1913 when he won a lookalike contest with his impersonation of Charlie Chaplin": How could Milton Berle win such a contest at the age of 5, when Chaplin's movie career (at Keystone) didn't really begin until 1914?

[edit] Caricature

I removed the goofy caricature as it's in poor taste and I doubt Berle (or anyone for that matter) would want that kind of a photo representing them in a recounting of their life. Quadzilla99 06:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

"photo"? It's not a photo; it's artwork. "representing them"? It was a common practice in the 1940s and 1950s for comedians to use caricatures in their ads and other promotional materials. Berle was caricatured many times. Martin & Lewis performed on television with huge caricature blow-ups behind them. Sam Berman was one of the great caricaturists, and NBC had him create caricatures not only of comedians but also vocalists and newsmen. "goofy"? A caricature is intended to be "goofy." That's the point! "poor taste"? Explain. I don't follow you. Why did people eat at Sardi's surrounded by hundreds of caricatures if poor taste? Pepso 17:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Specious reasoning. People ate at Sardi's so it's OK to use a caricature photo in a person's encyclopedia article? Are you really saying that? Quadzilla99 05:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Look, I empathize with not having enough quality pics for an encyclopedia article, but that photo is unacceptable. Quadzilla99 09:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Why do you keep calling it a "photo"? Pepso 07:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: SNL debacle & citation needed

Regarding the "citation needed" tag(s) that I just added to the "SNL debacle" section, citation is needed for assertions like "Berle was apparently not ready to accept that...". Either get a citation (or, preferably, a quote) that says exactly that or else lose the weasel words ("was apparently"). No bad feelings here, I was just passing by and this jumped out at me. Mlibby 13:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mendel?

Can't this be clarified? Dozens of sources, including the Guardian, CNN and the Voice of America say Berle's birth name was Mendel. Pepso 03:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

It is already clarified. Just get a copy of his birth certificate which clearly says Milton Berlinger. ChatNoir