Talk:Mozarabic language

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Languages, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative, and easy-to-use resource about languages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

language Portal

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.

	This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project’s talk page.
???	This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project’s quality scale.
???	This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project’s importance scale.

Portugal Portal

Mozarabic language is part of WikiProject Portugal, a project to improve all Portugal-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other Portugal-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.

Portugal To-do:

Spain Portal

This article is part of WikiProject Spain which aims to to expand and organise information better in articles related to the history, languages, and cultures of Spain. Please participate by editing the article, or visit the project page for more details.

1 Latin translation
2 Valencian version
3 Native name
4 Mozarabic language#Sample text (11th century)

[edit] Latin translation

I think that a Latin translation would make more sense than a Spanish one. Here is my attempt, probably with lots of errors (Romanes eunt domus) --Error 23:58, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Meus domine Abraham
O tu homo dulcis
veni mihi
nocturniter
Si non, si nolis
irabo tibi
di mihi ubi
locare te.

I heartily agree--for the sake of seeking the resemblances. However, we might want to "Romancize" or "Vulgarize" the Latin, instead of leaving it too classical, to reflect historical usage. Dpr 08:03, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

The word in English would be popularize. The term Vulgar has a different meaning than the one it has today. I think it would be diffult to writte that in Vulgar Latin, almost noone wrote in that language(s), besides Spanish and Portuguese are the vulgar latin(s). The best that could be done would be using old castillian/Portuguese (it would be more factual). So I hardily disagree with both of you. -Pedro 11:21, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Before trying to put Classic Latin and Romance side to side,

one has to keep in mind that Classic Latin was never an actual
living tongue but a litterary construction, probably based (to
some extent) on the Latin of the 2º century BCE. So, even in the
days of Cicero and Caesar the actual spoken language already
differed considerably from the written litterary form. And there's
almost 1000 years between the vernacular of the 1st century BCE
and Romance - almost a millenium of continuous change and evolution.
One can still (!) see the resemblances, but they are only obvious to
those who know both Latin and a Romance language well enough.
IOW, they're not necessarily obvious.
Anyway, I've corrected (I think!) some mistakes in the Latin
translation:

Mi domine Abraham
O tu homo dulcis
veni ad me
noctu
si non, si non vis
ibo ad te
dic mihi ubi
tibi occurram.

You've just further Classicized it, which I think is the opposite of what they wanted. "Mi" was the correct vocative in Classical Latin, but Ecclesiastical (and I believe Vulgar Latin) used "Meus." Viz. the "Domine meus, et Deus meus" of Doubting Thomas; in Classical, it would have been "Domine mi, atque Dee mi."--Jpbrenna 02:05, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Valencian version

Perhaps a Valencian version would be also interesting. --Error 03:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I've showed in a version in Valencian - I've tried to translate well and keep to Valencian norms, but I don't think that the differences between Valencian and Barcelona Catalan are due to Mozarabic influences, so anyone complaining about the choice of Valencian over Catalan would be well within their rights. Wee Jimmy 21:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Native name

What is the transliteration of that Arabic-script "native name"? Where does it come from? Is it documented? --Error 03:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

The origin of the word mozarab is arabic: must'rab (arabized). I imagine the same word is used nowadays in the arab world. So the transcription given (muzarab) should be corrected in both its latin and arabic form.--Guzman ramirez 16:50, 2 May 2006 (UTC)