Talk:Naruto ninja ranks

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Contents 1 ANBU correction 2 ANBU 3 ANBU vs Anbu 4 Sannin 5 Hoshikage 6 4th an apprentice..?? 7 Cooking ninja 8 Asuma's niju shotai team 9 S-Class 10 Tokubetsu Jonin 11 Courier-nin 12 Jounin

[edit] ANBU correction

A slight correction concerning ANBU. The article says that they are not to be confused with Shinobi Hunters. However, when Kakashi is recovering from the fight with Zabuza, he tells his team about the Hunters and mention that they are a division of ANBU. They are apparently an ANBU team with a specific purpose, much like the Torture and Interrogation squad. - Daniel Walker 23:30, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] ANBU

Sigh, another language discussion. Japanese or english? -- Hobbeslover 04:00, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I guess I'll say it again. I prefer the original Japanese over English. --JadziaLover 07:51, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Me too I also prefer original Japanese over English. --Love Gaara 13:10, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, yes, I agree, but Whisper is the one doing the changing, so I'd like to have him in here as well. -- Hobbeslover 03:34, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I prefer English. The anime will be released in the Fall and is done by the same company that is doing the manga. Think about what is best for Wikipedia and what will suit a general audience, not just a fanbase. The English name is better in the context here; this is not a Naruto fan encyclopedia - this is a general use encyclopedia. WhisperToMe 20:59, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I prefer the original Japanese over English. Havok 21:12, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I know you do, but think about it. Is using Japanese better for the encyclopedia? Most people who know of Naruto are not people who fansub. In general the manga names will become better known with the domestic release of the Naruto anime. WhisperToMe 02:48, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Then atleast wait til it airs. Because some of the official Viz translations are really stupid. :P (See: Trivia on Haku) Havok 11:17, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

About if it's better for the encyclopaedia to prefer Japanese over English, yes, I believe it is. The Japanese version is the original version, not a translated version filled with mistakes. And, yes there are many, many mistakes in the Viz translation, not to mention some very weird names they thought of (I still can't get over "Art of the Valentine" and "Evil Eye"). Of course there should be a mention of the Viz translations (just like there should be mention of other commonly used translations), but there is only one official version and that is the Japanese version.--JadziaLover 12:28, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well said as always JL! Havok 12:34, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The English version is not "filled with mistakes". Many things are intentionally changed around. What they do is they make a literal translation first, and a rewriter rewrites it. Lack of understanding of how English versions of manga are made is no excuse. All in all, we know it's the original version, and it doesn't matter!

And as I said earlier, the rationale of "Oh, we should use the original version" is flawed. We use what is relevant to us, not what is relevant to Japan. WhisperToMe 06:07, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

So the original version is not relevant to us? What kind of twisted thinking is that? Of course the original version is relevant to us! It's the original version.

And yes, the Viz translation is full of mistakes. For one thing, Tsunami is 29 in the original version, but she's appearantly a year younger in the Viz version. It's minor but still a mistake. Every translation has mistakes, which is why the original is always better. And can you give me a good ratification for calling Shintenshin no Jutsu 'Art of the Valentine'. There's a great difference between not translating literally and translating while you're stoned.--JadziaLover 16:29, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I would think the Japanese is relevant to us, seeing as it's the original. It does have alot to say, and besides, what's wrong with doing it "Japanese (English)"?

And for reference, when they translate "Demonic Mirror Ice Crystals" or "Makyō Hyōshō" to "Secret Art of Water Ice Crystal Magic Mirror Technique", they do actually fail it pretty much. Havok 06:56, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"So the original version is not relevant to us? What kind of twisted thinking is that? Of course the original version is relevant to us! It's the original version. " It's not relevant to us because it's in JAPANESE. Heck, even the fan translations aren't exactly like it. See, the Wikipedias are always skewed towards the people who tend to speak a certain language. Therefore this Wikipedia is usually made for Americans, British, and Australians. Since Naruto has official English-language adaptations that are still popular to this day... Also, Wikipedia isn't here to judge how great translations are or which one is "better". To some an English-language copy of the manga is "better" because then they don't have to go out and learn Japanese or to read a fan translation that they may not understand. WhisperToMe 08:49, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Last I checked this Wiki was for anyone who speaks/writes the English language, which is a hell of a lot more then just US, UK and Australia. Besides, Wiki builds on fact and correctness, using translations that are in essence "wrong" is not fact and is not correct.

So going for a "Japanese (English)" system is good. I think it's more important to show the facts and what's right then use translations that are wrong. And following Wiz wouldn't work anyway, because it is geared torwards the american market, so translations are made as they see fit, and they don't care about following the Japanese. Havok 10:17, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"following Wiz wouldn't work anyway, because it is geared torwards the american market, so translations are made as they see fit, and they don't care about following the Japanese" - That's how most manga companies in the 'states (and possibly other countries where they are translated) do business. Also, Viz' translation is imported to the UK and Australia. (Unlike other companies, Viz cannot directly sell the translated manga in the UK and Australia).

Again, most English-speakers come from either the US, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, or Canada. Therefore Wikipedia tends to be skewed towards them..

By your logic, we would be using the Japanese names for Pokemon! WhisperToMe 03:03, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You used this argument before and it's still flawed. Pokemon became popular after it came to the US, etc. It was the English version that was the most well-known from the start. Not only that, but it was mainly young children that liked pokemon. Most of them probably didn't even know there was a Japanese version.

However, Naruto has become popular before it came to the US, etc. It was the Japanese version that became popular, not the English. The greatest part of the fans of Naruto, if not all, know there's a Japanese version and, at the moment, most seem to prefer the original Japanese version.

--JadziaLover 28 June 2005 07:04 (UTC)

Whisper, I pose for you this question: By your logic, we should never use Japanese names and always the English name because supposedly, using English will "lean towards Americans, Australians, English, etc." Well then, why do Chinese/Japanese/Arabic/etc. still use words such as "McDonalds" and "IBM" and "Coca-Cola"? Chinese/Japanese/Arabic has translations (or rather, transliterations most of the thime) for these companies. Yet most text have ENGLISH letters in the middle of Chinese/Japanese/Arabic/etc. script. Why is this? Shouldn't Chinese/Japanese/Arabic/etc. be more relevant in that country? The answer is that we PRESERVE the original text. It is for the same reason why, for example, many companies don't have "English sounding" names. They preserve the original. Why can we not apply this to anime? Wouldn't it make more sense to preserve the original? Doesn't precedent tell us to preserve the original? Please answer this for me, Whisper. -- Hobbeslover 28 June 2005 21:13 (UTC)

Again, the only English language edition of Naruto is the U.S. version. People from Hong Kong read Chinese-language editions (scratch them out!).

Hobbes, I don't understand how that applies to Naruto.. and in an Arabic Wikipedia the name for Coca-Cola used in Arabic countries should be used.

This is not a "we ought to preserve whats original"-pedia. You kinda miss the point... US/UK/Australia conventions are preferred over the others because the books published that language almost always cater to THEM as an audience. WhisperToMe 2 July 2005 19:30 (UTC)

WhisperToMe, I think you miss the point here. Wikipedia collects facts and correct information. When the US/UK version of the manga is wrong in many cases, this makes the info shown false. Using the Japanese names is correct, using the english is false. Havok 2 July 2005 22:07 (UTC)

Wikipedia is split into different language sections, so that people who speak a different language can have encyclopedias that are written by native speakers. We don't completely ignore facts just because these facts might be from a different language. This, and all other articles, should strive to provide all the information relivant about the subject.

This is an article about a Japanese manga/anime series. While we should give plenty of information about the offical English translations, we should also give information about the original story as well.

These articles are about "Naruto", and not "Viz's North American translation and distribution of Naruto"

Desire Campbell 140.184.32.65 14:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ANBU vs Anbu

Could somebody please explain why everyone uses ANBU instead of Anbu? --JadziaLover 07:33, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

ANBU is an Acronym, as far as I know. "Ansatsu Senjutsu Tokushu Butai." The Wiki says it means "Assassination Tactics Special Squad", and since I don't know Japanese myself... Well, I'm going to have to trust it. --Serow 23:54, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

In that case it should be AnBu, not ANBU (nor Anbu). Robrecht 21:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

How do you type "SWAT", do you type it "SWAT", "SWaT", or "Swat"? Remember, as the Japanese use kanji instead of letters, they can't place a big character to start a word, thus "ANBU" would actually be the correct way to spell it. 217.208.27.4 15:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sannin

Just a question more than a request. Why is it that when you search for the "Sannin" rank, it takes you to this page, and yet there is no summary of what the Sannin rank actually is? I mean, yes I know that it does make mention of who they are, but not what the rank is in itself. I am only asking so that I do not add something that someone will just revert into disappearance later. --Myoukami 13:34, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Sannin isn't a rank ^^ so it doesn't really deserve a seperate entry on this page ～卍 JadziaLover ^{会話~投稿} 卐～ 15:09, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that doing a wiki search on "sannin" redirects to this page when it really shouldn't. It should instead refer to some "Naruto terms" or "Naruto characters" page. Grrblt 19:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I was actually the person that made that redirect. Sannin is not a real ninja rank, but that belief is ingrained so much onto people's beliefs that it is addressed in this article. There is no other page that sannin should redirect to. Making a "Naruto terms" page is useless, there are too many useless terms and miscellany. In fact, I would go so far as to say if you did make a Naruto terms page, I would instantly put it up for AfD. The Naruto Characters page is too big and wide in scope for a search for sannin to redirect. Thus, it is redirected here where it is mentioned along with Jounin. You are free to expand upon it and make a new paragraph, but please do not make a new section as they are NOT a real rank, and making a section would seem to imply this. Thanks Hobbeslover ^{talk/contribs} 21:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

There is a page about the real definition of Sannin, so this page should at least have a link saying if you meant that. The page, I believe, was linked to in Jiraiya's page. It says Sannin is a word used to describe a hermit or to describe a ninja sage. I remember seeing it, but I don't know how I got there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.91.155.84 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I just checked . It was Sennin. I spelled it that way because that's how they spell it in the entries for Tsunade, Jiraiya, and Orochimaru. And it was in their ranking so maybe it should have a page on here if another page calls it a rank and this one doesn't. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.91.155.84 (talk • contribs) 18:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Just wondering, but isn't Jiraiya the only Sennin out of the three? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.201.36.97 (talk • contribs).

"Sennin" (仙人) = "hermit," "sannin" (三忍) = "three ninja". Info taken from Jiraiya's article. --Pentasyllabic 01:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hoshikage

I have a question: should the Hoshikage be mentioned as the sixth Kage, as per the recent anime fillers? Menj 17:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

A small mention would be alright, but as far as I know, the rank of Hoshikage isn't official. It is just a foolish dream of a rather insignificant village to one day become one of the greatest in the world. I haven't watched the most recent episode, so I don't exactly know what happens, but I doubt the rank suddenly gained authenticity... If I'm wrong, please correct me ^^

～卍 JadziaLover ^{会話~投稿} 卐～ 18:10, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

No. If it did, then it would've been mentioned here by now. The Wretched 03:57, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 4th an apprentice..??

Correct me if im wrong, but i was under the impression that the 4th was a part of Jiraiya's official genin team. I remember when the third had a flashback during the fight with orochimaru seeing Jiraiya and the 4th with two other unnamed teammates implying that he was part of Jiraiyas official genin team. If I am correct then we should change the apprentice paragraph and take that out the 4th.BLaCk 21:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

who gives a damn?--Kenshin -Himura 13:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

No he was his apprentice, as mentioned in the Search for tsunade arc, when they are at dinner they discuss this.

I do, and no he wasnt his apprentice, he was part of jirayas Genin team. Different then the apprenticship he is giving Naruto.BLaCk 22:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

BLaCk is right. He was in Jiraiya's Genin team. See Jiraiya's article for the image. It's moot anyway. I removed that shortly after you posted the message. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:11, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

' You guys are truly noobs, since you clearly havn't scene/read tsunade ac, they disscuss comparison of the 4th as jirayas apprentice and naruto, I believe he might of also been a genin in his squad, but there was an apprentice relationship.

Dude your calling us noobs and your still saying that he MIGHT be in his genin team. Really you need to think befor you write.

The Picture with Jiraiya, the 4th and two other unknown genins is proof enough that the 4th was on his genin team and with that we can assume that he got his traing from his Jonin team leader and SENSI Jiraiya. As the 4th got older both him and Jiraiya built a mutual respect for each other and learned from each other. Jiraiya might have givin him special attention like Kakashi did with Sasuke but it was NOT the same as the apprenticeship that Jiraiya is giving Naruto.BLaCk 19:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I would argue that it probably WAS like the apprenticeship Jiraiya currently has with Naruto, but it's really a moot point. The only arguable difference is that Jiraiya was actually in charge of the Fourth's Genin team (which might make the Jiraiya-Fourth parallel the Kakashi-Sasuke apprenticeship more than the current Jiraiya-Naruto apprenticeship) while Kakashi is nominally the Jonin in charge of Naruto. Right now we have no information on the subject one way or the other, but we can confirm a couple things.

• Jiraiya was heavily involved in training the Fourth. This is mentioned explicitly in several places.

• Jiraiya was very moderately involved in the Fourth's training well beyond the Fourth's time as a Genin. Jiraiya has learned the Rasengan afterall and was aware of how long it took the Fourth to learn and was also aware of the training method used.

I'd just agree to disagree on this one. Lankybugger 16:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cooking ninja

I think someone should make a summary about cooking ninja, I think there called raurinin in the anime, I watcht the subs so it trnaslates into cooking nin in the captions of the episode I believe there should be a summary for them like courier ninja, since this is the most apropriate spot for them to have a summary.

IS kakashi not a S-rank due to him being on top of hiden mist village bingo book and known every where as "copy ninja kakashi".

^Uh No atleast not durring part 1 maybe he should be counted as such for part 2

[edit] Asuma's niju shotai team

Shouldn't some note be made of Asuma death most likely making his squad defunct? --Pentasyllabic 20:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why. It's just listing teams, and they haven't gotten to the point of reformating it. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] S-Class

Isn't S-Class a rank on the wanted list rather than an actual rank? it is based on the degree of crime the missing-nin committed or his skill rather than an actual rank right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 121.6.107.14 (talk • contribs).

S-class is the most wanted in a hidden village, but it is also a ANBU level mission. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.46.113.135 (talk • contribs).

The skill associated with an S-class ninja, who is not a wanted criminal, would be an upper jonin. According to the series, a Sannin is a title given to the ninja that are far beyond the realm of any jonin OR ninja that are at a kage's level but not in a position of control. so I aks again, why is there no article on the 3 Sannin? Machpovii3...Holla Atcha Bezzle, Kid! 06:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

makes buzzer noise

Wrong. "Sannin" quite literally means "three ninja." It is by no means a general title. It is a title given to those three specific ninja to which it refers. As we have articles on all three, what would be the point of making an article for an identifier, especially one so trivial? — Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:08, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I really wonder where people get these ideas that sannin is an actual rank. Perhaps some bad fansites? I know fansites that provide really, really horrible information. Although there was even a time when wikipedia listed Sennin (yes, Sennin) as a rank. Here's a guideline: back everything up. You'll find that you have no proof, whereas we do, because we have to conform to rules on wiki. Hobbeslover ^{talk/contribs} 08:55, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tokubetsu Jonin

I am quite sure they are higher ranked than jonin. can any1 comfirm this?

I can confidently deny it. Tokubetsu Jonin are essentially Chunin who meet some, but not all of the requirements for being a Jonin. A good example is Rock Lee (even though he's currently just a Chunin).

Rock Lee, no matter how strong he gets, won't ever be a Jonin. This is because he lacks the ability to use any form of Ninjutsu and Genjutsu. He could become a Tokubetsu Jonin specializing in Taijutsu, however. This would mark him as having Jonin-level ability in Taijutsu (which is pretty damned impressive) but lacking in other areas (such as Genjutsu and Ninjutsu. Ibiki Morino and Anko are two characters who are Tokubetsu Jonin, as is Ebisu. Lankybugger 16:50, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Courier-nin

I think it should be added the info: Anime Only Because, it is only confirmed in Anime series. Kunairu 14:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of which, this is an article about ninja ranks, it's completely and utterly pointless to write what happened in the filler arc. As I see no what-so-ever reason to keep that information here, I'm now going to remove it. 217.208.27.4 15:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The entire section about Cooking and Courier-nin should be removed. As it appears only in the anime fillers and is not canon. I'm going to remove it as of 2/6/07. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.6.185.214 (talk • contribs).

Anons have no business with removing info. Canon or no, it exists. Your removal has been reverted. Treima 01:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't bite. Asking for concensus before article changes are made is fine and questioning rationale is fine, but anons have every right to remove info provided that the edits are not controversial. Besides, these were all good faith edits. Hobbeslover ^{talk/contribs} 02:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Merely trying to preempt a speedy reversion from what appeared to be a vandal leaving only a token explanation and no signature. Besides, it appears that the anon made an account, so it's a moot point. Treima 02:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I think a section about the anime fillers is completly pointless. Since it isnt found in the manga and is therefore not part of the storyline. I'm now going to remove it. Also I advise the Medical-nin section to be moved under "Under Designations", because it fits better with all the missing-nin, apprentices, and other specialized practices. GrayNoton

I will revert your removals, so don't bother. There is no precedent for refusing things from the article simply because they weren't in the manga: look at the Jutsu lists, with many jutsu listed that were only in the anime. Treima 02:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, could we atleast move the cooking, medical, and courier-nin to the "Under Designations" section. It just seems stupid having that and the occupations. GrayNoton

That is fine. What you did is A-OK. I thought you were just going to blank them right out of the article, but this works. And now I see that you did blank out Cooking-Nin. Please place that back under Designations. Treima 02:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry I accidently delted Courier and Cooking-nin. I fixed it though and placed it under "Under Designations." However, I lost the sources cied, so if someone could find it that would save me some time. GrayNoton

Not sure what citations you are talking about, but I fixed the image which you didn't catch in your copy-paste, and also added in a sentence about the filler arc to help alleviate some of the problems. Hobbeslover ^{talk/contribs} 02:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jounin

Think its spelled that way in the translations, not jonin