Talk:National Autonomous University of Mexico

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According to the official UNAM website, [1], the University was founded on September 21, 1551, and opened on January 25, 1553. However, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos (National University of San Marcos) in Lima, Peru, was founded on May 12, 1551, and opened on January 2, 1553, according to its official webpage [2], which would mean that the statement in this article that UNAM was the first university in America is not true. The same applies for the statement that UNAM is the oldest university in the Western Hemisphere, in the List of oldest universities in continuous operation.

And, if you go over to check the article at Santo Domingo, you'll see that: The Universidad Autónoma de Santo Domingo (UASD) is the oldest university in the new world 1538. If we were to say, "in the New World," (Santo Domingo), "in America" (Lima), and "in North America" (Mexico), all three could have their slice of glory. –Hajor

Agree, except that Hispaniola is also in the Americas. Better South America for San Carlos. --Rbraunwa 15:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Agree, the dates don't make it. Besides, it seems there is another mexican university claiming it's oldest by 10 years. The official site makes no claims about that. So I am removing that claim. Asereje 08:23, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

After all the opinions, UNAM is the Oldest university in North America. Please see the maps, Santo Domingo and Perú are no in North America. Pedron 12:00, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

That's right, Santo Domingo is in the Caribean and Peru in South America.

According to UNAM historians experts the Pope never gave the title of "Pontificia", so it should remain as "Real Universidad de Mexico" as official former name. Which is even more remarkable and which separates it to the other eclesiastic university of Mexico that claims being the older and had in his name "Pontificia". By the way, in France the name "Cité Universitaire" is used for a Student dorms place which is like a small city just as in Mexico is the "Ciudad Universitaria" (in the sense that it is a small city, not in the sense that it is a student dorms place). However the term "city" in french comes from the late latin which means "village", therefore "city" in French is "ville", for example Mexico City is translated as "Ville de Mexico". Anyway, I think the best translation for "Ciudad Universitaria" is effectively "University City".

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Please correct me if I'm wrong about the football team. Also, I concur with the statement that there is controversy about the title of being "oldest university in the Americas". San Marcos in Lima and the university in Santo Domingo also claim this honor. glasperlenspiel 18:15, Jun 17, 2004 (UTC)

Hi. I would like suggestions about how to translate "Ciudad Universitaria". Currently I use University City but I am unsure if Universitary City would be better. Is there a similar term in english-speaking countries? Thanks. Asereje 08:23, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What do you mean by university city? If you mean a place where students live, then try "Student dorms", note this is a very american (as in USA) phrase, and is not used outside the US, however it will be understood. by the way, tomorrow when i have time i will come back and fix up the english on this page, i saw no mistakes as such, just lots of constructions that weren't natural (an example is the second sentence which frogot that in english unlike spanish you cant just use the verb "to be" with out a pronoun (spcefically it). And using reflexive pronouns where they would be needed in spanish but not in english. Great article though, thanks all for the translation work. The bellman 13:32, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

On reading the article more i think university city means university campus. The bellman 13:41, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It is like this: The University used to be located in the downtown area of Mexico City, scatered in several buildings. In the 1940s (or was it 1950s?) a vast campus was built in the outskirts of the city and was christened Ciudad Universitaria, the City (Ciudad) in the name refers to the fact that it was something of a city in itself at the time, it was somewhat isolated from the rest of the city (that has since changed quite a bit), and thus had several public services of its own, such as a postal office, bank branches (although that's not a public service, but you get my meaning), etc. Today UNAM has several campi around Mexico City and elswhere, but Ciudad Universitaria remains the main and largest campus. I'm inclined to use University City as a translation, but it would require an explanation if that term is not really understood in english speaking countries. Suggestions? --Jsf 01:49, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hi, I'm new to editing etc. so please bear with me. The article is generally informative. I've just copyedited the strike section as a native English speaker, but please let me know if you feel I've changed the meaning. As far as Ciudad Universitaria goes, and as far as I understand it, it is not just a "normal" university campus as understood in the US or the UK, for example. The main difference is the autonomy referred to in the name, and mentioned (although without enough emphasis, in my opinion) in the article: it is almost a separate region within Mexico City, with its own regulations, councils, police (to some extent) etc., in a more fundamental way than most universities around the world. Law enforcement officials from outside the University are not welcome, and are not allowed to enter, although there would not be very much to stop them if they tried to do so -- it is just understood that they must not do so. I agree with Jsf that it's difficult to translate this idea -- it took me a while to get used to it. University City does not sound very idiomatic, but I agree that it is difficult to improve on. How about University Village, which is somewhat like olympic village. Not brilliant either. --Pruple 18:58, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think we would do better leaving it as is and adding a (literally: University City) after the name, if you really want to know wat is it, you are just going to have to read the paragraph and get used to the idea :-) --Jsf 01:24, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Jsf and Pruple's comments above about the autonomy are correct. I tried to give in the article the idea that the campus is a lot more than that. I insist on the term because it is the official name: Ciudad Universitaria. Main campus would probably give the idea but miss a lot on the facilities (like the soccer stadium) that are targeted not only to students but to the rest of the population. According to [[3]], Ciudad Universitaria has a surface of six million square meters (a meter being a bit more than three feet). I wanted most of all a term as natural as possible to a native english speaker. If there´s no natural sounding way of translating the official name I would go for "main campus", but again, the name itself is widely used. It seems spanish-speaking countries use "Ciudad Universitaria" as "main campus", but I still believe is worth translating because the campus is a landmark in Mexico City and its size, as has been said above. Asereje 06:27, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 National University of Saint Mark oppinion 2 What about the CGH strike? 3 Motto 4 Number of bachelor degrees 5 The oldest? 6 Vandalism? 7 Name change

[edit] National University of Saint Mark oppinion

However the spanish name for university its national university of san marcos the most accurate translation to english it is National University of Saint Mark in honor from evangelist from the 1st century, although university in santo domingo indeed is the oldest, has been disrupted in many occations from operation, specially during tough years of independence during early 19th century. Saint Mark National University may not be the oldest in newly spanish conquered territories during the 16 th century, but it has been the only university on this continent (america) to have been since its stablishment in continuously operation without any kind of interrumption since the 16th century until nowadays.

[edit] What about the CGH strike?

There's no mention of it in the article. Perhaps it doesn't belong there, but it was a nationally covered event that deserves to appear somewhere in the Wikipedia. I think it was there in the first versions of the article. Asereje 01:03, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Given the political implications of the whole thing (e.g. different political parties supporting different groups behind the scenes) I think it deserves to go in a new article, with a brief mention of it in the political climate section. -- Rune Welsh ταλκ 07:01, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] Motto

"Por mi raza hablará el espiritu" had been translated as "Through my race will the spirit speak"... I have my doubts on this; It's not only the syntax but also "Por"'s actual sense... It's not like the race is a medium of communication, but that the spirit will speak on behalf of our race. In my opinion the proper translation is "For my race, will the spirit speak"... --Agurza 18:24, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. If you go through a window in Spanish, you go "Por la ventana". In this context, and in my discussion with UNAM students while I was a student there, the "through" meaning was the most commonly understood. However, some students agreed with the "for" meaning. Maybe we can list both translations, as it is a little ambiguous in the Spanish language. What do you think?

--Richardmtl 20:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Reading the official interpretation by the man who actually coined the motto (Vasconcelos) I'm inclined to think the "for" meaning is what is implied here. See [4] (In Spanish). -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 21:37, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I´m from Mexico City, I'm a student of "La UNAM" and it is meant to say "Through my race...." --Revolver42 05:57, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

The problem any one face when attempting to translate poetry is the intrinsic difficulty of the original language. I graduated from the UNAM and the idea of this short piece of poetry is that the SPIRIT will speak ON BEHALF of my race. The preposition "POR" in the motto is used in the sense of "in favor or on behalf of someone or something." "On behalf of my race the spirit will speak" would be the closest translation. Tomas Hernandez

[edit] Number of bachelor degrees

Source: [5] at the bottom. Note that "carreras" is the stat that matters. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 10:10, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I would like someone to reflect that undergraduate is not quite the term that describes the level of the academic content that is acquire at UNAM. The academic rigor presented in the study plans is comparable to the MD of the US. Alejandra

[edit] The oldest?

I do not understand what is the matter of the discussion: Lima was founded in 1548, Mexico in 1551. Lima is in South America, Mexico is in North America. So, what is the point? Pedron 19:25, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism?

Someone deleted the Undergraduate Studies part of the article?

[edit] Name change

Hull Quebec was recently amalgomated with several towns and is now known as Gatineau, Quebec