User talk:Ogg

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Davy Spillane

Hi there. I just wikified your article on Davy Spillane - an article we definitely needed for ages. However, I'm a bit concerned about whether it has been cut and pasted from another site, rather than your own work. Can you confirm that the text does not violate Wikipedia's copyright policy? Graham 01:55, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 To Graham 2 Copy vio 3 Discography guy 4 Not a copy vio 5 A Good idea 6 Edward II (band) 7 The Boys of the Lough 8 Thanks for your encouragement 9 Juan Martín 10 Malicorne 11 Wizz Jones 12 Jerry Boys 13 Your re-wite on Ballet music 14 Years 1960 - 1969 in Scottish music 15 The Magic of Morris 16 Giles Farnaby 17 Colin Harper

[edit] To Graham

I don't know how to use the "message" system. My article is obviously based on Davy's own website:

http://www34.brinkster.com/thebadwebsite/frames/daveyspillane.html

Looking back, you are right, I should have made more effort to change the text. I should also have made reference to his recent work with the Afro-Celt Sound System.

Please feel free to amend the article as much as you like. I'm quite robust when it comes to other people changing my text. Go ahead.

Cheers,

Ogg

Hi Ogg, there isn't a message system - just add comments to (this) talk page as needed, like any other page. There could be a problem with copying work from Davy Spillane's (and any other) website unless the text there is explicitly licenced under the GFL, which is probably fairly unlikely. Just changing the text a bit to disguise its origins is not really in the spirit of how wikipedia does things. It is OK to draw on this as a source if you were to rewrite it in your own words, and to quote from it if the sources are cited, but not to just cut and paste it wholesale. I'm not really familiar enough with the various copyright issues to advise you here, so what I'll do is go and request a bit of help on the village pump pages. The chances are though that the article will have to be taken down until it's rewritten. I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh - it's not that your effort isn't appreciated, but WP has to be very careful not to bring itself into disrepute by violating copyrights. Graham 22:13, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've just compared the two texts - obviously you have changed it quite a bit from the original, but the overall structure can be seen to be very much the same. I just don't know if this is OK or not - I hope you won't mind me asking around for advice on this. I assume it's much the same story with your bios for a number of other people? (Cathy-Ann McPhee, Gus Dudgeon, Sean Ó Riada, Matthew Bourne, etc)Graham 22:21, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Copy vio

I must come clean here, there is almost no originality in the Matthew Bourne piece, which comes from here:

http://www.willkemp.org/matthewbourne_bio

However, in the case of Sean O'Riada, I think I have contibuted a lot that is not obvious from the web. The others are in between the two extremes. I never write anything unless there is at least something new from me. I am content to have them removed till they pass the originality tests.

I applaud your honesty. Look, I'm not a policeman for wikipedia, and to be honest I'm glad someone is adding bios of some of the more obscure and interesting characters in Irish music. I've asked for assistance on the village pump on this, after 24 hours no-one has responded. I guess that's an indication that nobody cares much. For now I'm inclined to just leave it alone - if in the meantime you find time to wikify and change/expand the texts a bit I suspect that nothing more will come of it. Graham 22:25, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Discography guy

Thanks. My guess is that any of these obscure artists are glad of the publicity. I'm basicly a discogrpahy-obsessive, and I only write the biographies as a way of getting the album titles listed.

[edit] Not a copy vio

Hi Ogg, you suggested the Fairport article might violate someone's copyright. It doesn't. Even if it did, both pieces are largely based on my copyleft work, so (as I note on the article's talk page) I've given myself permission to publish my own work on Wikipedia on the understanding it will be treated as and open source. "All rights reversed" as they say ;). Anyway, it appeared on Wiki before Fairport Convention's website went 'live' a week ago.

Personally, I think the article's provenance less important than whether or not it's informative, encyclopedic and NPOV. Andy F 02:15, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] A Good idea

OK I grant you have every right to the text. However, is it a good idea to offer it as a featured article when most of the information is already out there in a similar format on another website?

Don't see why not. But I'm happy to be guided by others' views (I'm assuming the paragraph above refers to my note on Fairport). Andy F 18:40, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Re Woodworm Records. Couple of points: it was Dave and Christine Pegg's label, not Simon Nicol's; and the new label is Matty Grooves, a pun on Groves. Have a good Christmas, Ogg. Andy F 19:53, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Edward II (band)

Hi there. I see you write about folky stuff. I just came across a poor little stub languishing at Edward II (band). I added details from my memory and a quick google, but I wonder if you're able to fill it out at all, or know who might be able to? --Telsa 14:12, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm uncomfortable about writing about a band that I haven't actually heard. One day I might give it a stab. Ogg 17:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, if you haven't come across them, no need. I was just hoping you might have, since I kept finding your name in articles about bands in similar genres. --Telsa 18:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Boys of the Lough

Hi Ogg, I was impressed by this entry. I have left a note in the discussion about Dave Richardson and his bother Tich (Titch?) I need to get some old LPs out to check. Also I updated the last reference to Ali Bain. Are you likely to update the last decade almost? I hope so. I have lost touch almost since Ali Bain left.

I have added a WP entry on Ossian the Scottish group which you might be able to add to. Your knowledge seems to be very encylopaedic.

--Paw42 17:22, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your encouragement

Thanks for your kind words about my edits. By a strange coincidence, I received you message just as I was having a look at the discography section that you've added to John Renbourn! I think we have some overlapping areas of interest in a combination folk/early music and history. Bluewave 18:35, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Juan Martín

Hi Ogg, I was looking at your original entry for this article from 24 Nov 2005, in particular:

"Juan Martin was born in Andalucia and started learning the guitar at the age of six. He played in clubs in Malaga, Seville and Granada. In his early twenties he moved to Madrid to study under Nino Ricardo and Paco de Lucía."

and I was wondering what led you to believe Juan was born in 1954? In his early twenties Ricardo (d. 1972) would have been dead at least two years.

Just curious.

Paul Magnussen 17:33, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I fell into the usual trap - you find a web that says he was "aged 40" (or whatever), and you assume that the article was written in the current year, so you subtract the number ... and reach the wrong value. I realised at the time that it was a a guess.

[edit] Malicorne

Hello Ogg! I saw that you worked on the Malicorne article, so I was wondering if you would know what was their record label. Thanks! loulou 21:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC) Yes, but I don't have any information to hand right now. Have patience.

OK done it. Look at the comments next to Malicorne, to see all the labels their albums were issued on. Ogg 09:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! loulou 15:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wizz Jones

Good to see that you've started an article on Wizz. Very underrated guitarist. I saw him in about 1973 and felt like giving up ever trying to play guitar! Bluewave 15:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jerry Boys

This was a non-notable biography as per the criteria set out in WP:BIO. (aeropagitica) 22:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your re-wite on Ballet music

I was rather suprised at your re-write on ballet music. I am curious to know what your source was, as you left out nearly a century of history pertaining to ballet music in the 19th century, and its devlopment. You didnt even mention the composer Pugni, who wrote more ballet music that any composer in history.

Regarding your question about the composer Baron Boris Fitinhof-Schel, he was the first so-called "symphonic" composer to ever score music for the ballet, and thus paved the way, quite literally, for Tchaikovsky, etc.

A vast, vast amount is missing from my re-write. By the same token, a vast amount was missing from the version that I deleted. I did not have "a source", I had many sources. It is not a copyvio. You are more than welcome to add in stuff, but please don't remove Lully, who was missing from the original article. It will take a lot more to convince me that (a) Baron Boris Fitinhof-Schel EVER existed, and (b) that his ballet is earlier than Tchaikovsky's earliest ballet. Serious documentary evidence is needed. I work at the Royal Academy of Dance, and nobody there has heard of him. The library there on the subject of ballet is one of the largest in the world. You have your work cut out for you if you want to champion him. Ogg 19:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Years 1960 - 1969 in Scottish music

Hi Ogg, good to see you're still an active Wikipedia editor. You created the page Years 1960 - 1969 in Scottish music some time ago, and it is currently one of the Oldest pages in Wikipedia, not touched for more than 20 months. Along with the (main?) page Timeline of trends in music from the United Kingdom, this nook/cranny of Wikipedia is in need of updating. I suggest renaming some of the pages, maybe even redirecting/deleting them if necessary. As you are the pages' creator, can I ask you if these pages still have their place in Wikipedia? Regards, --Montchav 18:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I have to admit I immediately lost interest in the "modern" pages in Scottish music, on the day people started adding rock and rock albums to them. As far as I am concerned rock and roll (and indeed most jazz and classical music) is "international" and not "Scottish" or "English" or any other nation. Please feel free to rename these pages in any way you want, as I only ever look at the ones from before 1900 nowadays. Are you asking me to add new stuff to the page "1960 - 1969 in Scottish music"? I could do this, but if it's going to be renamed or chopped up, I would rather wait until after the changes are complete, and then add in new stuff. Ogg 13:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

No reply, so I have added more stuff into the Scottish 1960 - 1969 bit. I am still not sure what people are thinking of doing with these pages. There is even a suggestion that someone wants to delete them. Ogg 12:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't reply for ages, I forgot about this page. I'm AFDing all of these pages you must have spent a while making. They just look really out of place on this website. More discussion can be found at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timeline of trends in music from the United Kingdom. --Montchav 14:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Judging by this article -> List of musical events, nothing happened in British music before 1989. Nobody seems to consider that article out of place, and nobody seems bothered that it doesn't consist of sentences. I notice that this article -> List of jazz albums is very thin, yet nobody proposes to delete it. Someone seems to object to the fact that "Years in Scottish music .." is mostly folk music. All music before 1900 was folk music, or Classical music, so unless you have a very blinkered view of history, there is no avoiding it. But if it must go, I bow to the majority. Would anyone object if I created "List of folk music albums", roughly along the lines of the existing article List of ballroom and social dance albums? Ogg 19:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Magic of Morris

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article The Magic of Morris, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at its talk page. Removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, but the article may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria.

I don't believe in fighting quixotic battles. Either I have allies, or I don't fight. Please remove it, though I would be interested to know which album of morris dances you consider to be the best ever recorded. Ogg 08:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Giles Farnaby

In case you don't have it on your watchlist, I have replied at length to your pertinent comments on Giles Farnaby. Many thanks for pointing this out! Nick Michael 22:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colin Harper

Well done! Definitely worth an article! Bluewave 20:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Ogg 08:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)