Talk:Oromo
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[edit] History of Oromo
Many Oromo separatists claim that Oromos have been colonized and oppressed by the Amhara beginning in the late 19th century, but this is simply not the case. Oromo integration into Ethiopia began in the mid 18th century with Emperor Iyoas I, during which time Oromigna/Oromifa/Afaan Ormo/Oromo language was the language of the court in Gondar. After a period of 20 years of effective rule by Mikael Sehul, rule of Ethiopia reverted back to the Oromo (specifically the Yejju dynasty), beginning with Ras Ali I in 1779 and continuing until Ras Ali II in 1855, when he was defeated by Tewodros II. The Oromo Yejju dynasty consisted of Regents to the Emperor who, at that time (Zemene Mesafint - the age of the princes), was just a figurehead appointed by those who were truly in power (i.e. the Yejju for most of the period).
[edit] apparently 2 topics got mixed up
Oromo is a distinct language as well, is it not?
From what i've heard, the oromos have historically been oppressed by the amharas. beyond that, i've still a lot to learn about these people.
- Yes, Oromo is a distinct language; it is related to Somali. See Oromo language.
- The Oromos have historically been oppressed (enslaved, denigraded), basically for being 'outsiders', which has been one of the main reasons for politicizing their ethnicity since the second half of the twentieth century. — mark ✎ 15:03, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] amharas and oromos
from what i've long heard, the amharas and oromos historically and currently haven't gotten along well and don't get along well, to say the very least. Gringo300 19:06, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Simply reason, which doesn't have to do with being an "outsider" or "insider", the Oromo were colonized in the last decades of the 19th century by Amarah/Tigray led conquest backed by western military support. Since their colonization the Oromos have been oppressed being treated as second class citizens because the Oromo are the majority population. The Ethiopian state from Thewodros through Haile Selaise and Meles Zenawi today feel that by abusing their power to oppress these people their are keeping the country under control, but in reality has further created a nationalist response in the form of the OLF which seeks freedom and liberation from Ethiopia. —preceding unsigned comment by 24.151.174.225 (talk • contribs) 06:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Pejorative terms
Someone had removed "(pejoratively termed Galla)" from the introductory sentence, I'm guessing because the name is, indeed, pejorative. I think it should still be included in the article - to this date there are still a lot references that use the term (hopefully out of ignorance) and because of this, many readers might not realize that the term is now considered offensive. Unfortunately, now that I've explained the name in slightly more detail in the article, it accounts for at least half of the text in the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 6 July 2005 01:24 (UTC)
- Thanks for addressing that the word "Galla" to refer to Oromos is a very pejorative term which I can say is similar to saying "Negro", although not the same in meaning. I do come from the Oromo ethinic group and would like to thank you for putting the truth out there.
- Oromo
[edit] History section
An anonymous editor had twice replaced the "History" section with copyrighted material, then following reverts, deleted the original text. However, this person is correct in disputing the verifiability of the section, although the section was already flagged as lacking references. I have updated the tag in that section. I also posted the following comments to the anonymous user's talk page. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:08, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
- "Your edit summary said:
- (It is falsification (Somalia paragraf) and NOT a neutral Point of View. Whoever posted it wanted it to use here--> http://www.medrekforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=190349&highlight=wikipedia+somalia#190349)
- This is a valid concern, but note that the section was already flagged for not citing its sources. I have updated the tag to {{TotallyDisputed-section}} in order to indicate that the section is in dispute. But please do not copy and paste text from elsewhere, and please don't delete the existing content. Also, the text in question had been that way for a while, I doubt that the person who quoted it on your message board is the same person who added it to the article (which has been an ongoing collaboration between many people). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:03, 2 December 2005 (UTC)"
I have moved the following comments from the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:46, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
- Previous editor wrote: "The Oromo developed as a distinct political and ethnic group some time in the 16th century in what is now southern Ethiopia and northern Kenya, after having migrated from present-day Somalia. They came to the wider notice of the world when they invaded, and nearly overthrew, the Abyssinian christian monarchy (Ethiopia) in the late 1500s."
- Yet it is quite amusing how some might find it simple to entertain the idea that the most populous ethnic group in East Africa and one of the largest in the whole African continent can spring about so late in history from a group of "pastorialist/nomadic" people. Oromos are descendents of the Kushites as their language implies. See Kush for a broader understanding of these people and their origin which most certainly wasn't Kenya, Tanzania or Madagascar. They speak a language that belongs to the Kushitic subgroup language of the Afro-Asiatic language group. Recent genetic study sheds more light on their relationship with the people in the horn and their probable history and location of their origin which by no means was as recent as implied in this article.
- All that is below here here is highly disputed and far from sound. There are virtually no sources cited, yet this article is circulated throughout many Ethiopian discussion forums with participants that often tend to lean towards jingoism: —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.3.103.143 (talk • contribs) 08:49, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I honestly don't know where the idea The Oromo people "migrated from Somalia," or that they were "Nomads" Came from but whoever collaborated these information better get their Facts straight. Because if anything Somalians have migrated and descended from The Oromo people. Being that I am Oromo. And if you really need hard evidence please feel free to contact me. I have learned to trust the information on this site to be helpful in all my researches in the past, I am really not so sure anymore. This idea really sounds, familiar to the Abyssinian mind control-game that was played with the arousing of the Anti-Oromo development, which was set to enslave the Oromo people, being that they were the majority at the time, and still are today. This took place somewhere in around mid or late seventeenth century, and later the term "Gala' came about, which literally means ignorant, or brainless as means of degrading the Oromo people. And all of sudden the Oromo people did not belong to their Native Land, They were nomads who had migrate from the Indian Subcontinent. But The Oromo people in truth are Indigenous To Oromia, Even before Christianity and Islam had become an issue. This whole idea that the Oromo's had migrated to Ethiopia is complete B.S. and just another way of the Ethiopian rule to degrade one group of people. And I have a whole bloodline of FAMILY HISTORY TO PROVE IT, DATING BACK TO 6TH CENTURY AND ORAL HISTORY. I am really grateful that you have decided to inform the world of the Oromo people and their history, but I would trully appreciate it if it were what the Oromo consider themselves and their history. thank you. —the preceding comment is by Samiakahmed - 01:56, 13 March 2006: Please sign your posts!
- Samiakahmed, Greetings. Please do not be so angry. I too am Ethiopian (but not Oromo), but I am in no way trying to place an external origin of Oromos. It angers me when others try to say that Ethiopians came from Yemen when really the evidence disagrees with their claims. As to the homeland of the Oromo people, I am not really sure, but it is most likely from the South or Southeastern area of modern Ethiopia. The Oromo are very much Ethiopian. I do not believe the term "Galla" means brainless (the term for that in Amharic would be ras yelem or angol yelem), but what I have read (from a pro-Oromo separatist source - Being and Becoming Oromo: Historical and Anthropological Enquiries) says that it comes from the Somali word for foreigner or stranger (though another source says that it is the word for infidel). Either way, it most certainly does not mean "brainless," but it is nevertheless pejorative and insulting in today's world. As to your bloodline, I wouldn't trust anything that (unless on paper) goes back farther than a few centuries, and probably not anything during Axumite time. My grandmother is supposedly related to Abreha, the 6th century general who conquered Yemen, but I severely doubt it (I only have my genealogy going back to around the 17th century, I think). Oral history could possibly preserve it, but the farther you go back, the less likely.
- Regarding the origins of the Somalis, the Somali people article does indeed point to a Northwestern (Southeastern Ethiopia) origin.
- I am happy to change the source of the Oromo (probably Southeastern Ethiopia, but possibly elsewhere in South, South-Central, or South-(slightly)Western Ethiopia), but you would have to provide a source that would point to their origin. Regards.
- Yom 05:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Copyvio
I have just reverted a large amount of text apparently copied from http://www.oromoliberationfront.org/OromiaBriefs.htm. This had happened on Dec. 2, 2005 as well, though from a different IP address. If I'm not mistaken the same text appeared in older versions of this article the Oromia article, so apparently we still need to keep an eye out. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 04:27, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Population
I've reverted edits saying the Oromos constitute 40% of the population. Although this is the claim by the CIA factbook, it is simply inaccurate. The 1994 census had oromos as around 32% of the population, Amharas as around 31%, and Tigrays as around 6%. According to the CIA, Oromo are 40% and Amhara [b]and[/b] Tigrays are 32%. This ethnic composition has been on the site for a number of years (the wayback machine only lets me look as far back as October 17, 2000, but I doubt the data has been changed since before 1994); coupled with the fact that the Amhara and Tigre groups haven't been separated into two separate statistics makes it very unlikely that the data has been updated all those years. Moreover, the CIA puts the "Shankella" at 6%, whereas Shanqella isn't actually an ethnic group, but an Agaw word refering to the black tribes on the Sudanese border (e.g. Anuak, Nuer, etc.). Altogether, the CIA factbook is a very suspect source in my eyes.
Yom 00:18, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
- FWIW, the World Almanac also shows Amhara/Tigray as a single (or grouped) ethnicity, but perhaps furthering your point, I would probably not have used it as a source. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:32, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
-
- Now that I actually got the book out and looked, I'm guessing the World Almanac got its figures from the CIA (since it's in the public domain). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:41, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
- Where does the CIA Factbook get its figures? From the Ethiopian CSA? NGOs in Ethiopia? Or from their own information-gathering sources? (Now I'm picturing spies in trenchcoats wandering the Ethiopian coutnryside performing census interviews ;) -- llywrch 00:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Religion
143.127.131.4 (Talk) has removed some information regarding religion among Oromos. Though the removed information was uncited, it seems to me to be correct or at least reasonable.
Yom 00:51, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Origins
Someone (205.210.232.62, possibly DES (talk)) has removed the sentence about Oromos migrating from present day Somalia. Now, I don't know whether or not that information is correct, but the editor left no information showing the converse or any explanation at all. Does anyone know anything as to the matter. My hunch is that they originally dominated South-eastern or South-central Ethiopia, but I could be wrong. Taddesse Tamrat posits (very tentatively) that the "Galla Homeland" (his wording, not mine) could be in SNNPR south of Lake Abaya and east of the Omo River (which seems doubtful to me), but he never actually vocalizes the guess, simply putting "Galla Homeland?" in that area on one of his maps of Medieval Ethiopia.
Yom 20:45, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] History section
I didn't really see much that would be disputed, so I removed that part of the tag; I haven't yet removed the POV tag, but I'm inclined too, as I really don't see much of a bias. It needs some more info wrt to any Oromo states that existed, though. Although I think the kingdom of Kaffa was Kaffa/Sidama, but someone should add some info about Jimma which was Oromo and other tribes.
Yom 21:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
- Also, what exactly is the citation style I should use for the nomenclature (which I'm about to add some info to)? Do I add the note at the very end of the quotation, and what about quotations through a middle man (i.e. a quotation of B, but you're really quoting A quoting B)? Thanks.
- Yom 21:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Category
Someone has added the "African Nomads" category to this page. I'm not sure if it's applicable, however. The only Oromo sub-group that is nomadic are the Bale in the far Southeast. All other divisions of the Oromo are sedentary and have an agrarian society. Given that the majority are not Nomads, I'm going to remove the category, but if we get an article on the Bale (not the province, but the people), then it should be added.
Yom 20:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
