Talk:Rogers' Rangers
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[edit] Nomenclature of "Rogers' Rangers."
The proper name of this unit is "Rogers' Rangers." That is the historically accurate, correct English title. Do not edit this article to change the apostrophe or add an extra "s." His name was not "Robert Roger." It was "Robert Rogers." This is a simple English 211 rule.
- Possessive form of Roger: Roger's
- Plural possessive form of Roger: Rogers'
- Possessive form of Rogers: Rogers's <--- The proper form for this article Ergbert 21:21, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
- The Elements of Style Ergbert 21:31, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
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- The Bartleby/Strunk link is very old rules (at least pre-1922). It may be "right", but here are some alternate modern guides from USA Universities that say to ommit the "'s" in possesive nouns that end with "s": [1], [2], -- further, a search at A9 (across published books only) shows that most ommit the "'s" and use the form Rogers' --Stbalbach 21:59, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
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- It's from 1918. Wikipedia:Manual of Style says that if one spelling sees much greater use it should be used, even if it's incorrect...I really don't like that, as omitting the final "s" completely changes the meaning from a singular possessive of one word to a plural possessive of another, but I don't run Wikipedia... Ergbert 22:57, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Other Notes
Some of these minor points should be worked into this article or correpsonding articles:
1. The majority of the minutemen who rallied at Concord Bridge on April 19, 1775, to combat the British Army had served as formal members of Rogers' Rangers during the French and Indian War. Historians believe the spark of the American Revolution began in the ranks of Rogers' Rangers as the British had treated the rangers poorly during the French and Indian War and mocked their shortcomings. In 1775, many former members of Rogers' Rangers fired upon the British at Concord and Lexington. Thus, there is a question of whether the minutemen fired at Concord Bridge not so much for liberty, but to settle an old score.
2. In 1758, Robert Rogers was given command of all colonial rangers serving in North America. Rogers picked as his second-in-command John Stark, a young man who would later become the legendary hero of the Battle of Bunker Hill (June 17, 1775) and the Battle of Bennington (August 16, 1777). Stark's leadership and strategical expertise were also vital to Rogers' Rangers throughout the French and Indian War. This individual is significant as Robert Rogers and, when this article is expanded, should be more than just a footnote.
3. The rangers formed by Rogers continued their duties on the frontier from the end of the French and Indian War into the outbreak of the War for Independence. Most of these rangers joined the Patriot side and provided badly needed leadership for the Continental Army.
Other rangers joined the Loyalists. They were active throughout the American Revolution in scouting and recruiting along the frontiers of New York, Lake Champlain and what was later to be known as Vermont. They participated in the capture of the American forts of Fort Anne and Fort George and were instrumental in a raid on Ballstown, New York, that netted a number of rebel prisoners. They also spied for the Crown forces in rebel territory. Disguised as civilians, their fate -- if captured -- was to be hanged.
4. A ranger unit under Robert Rogers played a role in the capture of Nathan Hale, the famous spy for the revolutionary cause. In September 1776, Robert Rogers captured Nathan Hale, a spy for the Continental Army and now a famous American hero. A contemporary account of Hale's capture written by Consider Tiffany, a Connecticut shopkeeper and Loyalist, was obtained by the Library of Congress.
In Tiffany's account, Rogers met Hale in a colonial tavern and saw through Hale's disguise of a harmless schoolmaster. After luring Hale into betraying his espionage activities by pretending to be a patriot himself, Rogers and his Rangers later apprehended Hale near Flushing Bay. After a trial before British General William Howe, Hale was sentenced to be hanged as a spy. Before being hung from the gallows, Hale made the timeless statement: "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." [3] [4]
5. John Paul Jones' ship during the American Revolutionary War was named The Ranger in honor of Robert Rogers and his famous unit. Several key triumphs of the Continental Navy during the War for Independance were achieved by The Ranger. Under John Paul Jones' command, this famous ship would later witness the first salute to the American flag by a foreign country.
Although Rogers' Rangers were most significant in the French and Indian War, these links to the American Revolutionary War need to be referenced as they provide glimpses into the evolution of American history and our perception of the colonials.
Most of the information cited is obtained from The Annotated and Illustrated Journals of Major Robert Rogers (link) by Robert Rogers, Timothy J. Todish (Contributor), Gary S. Zaboly (Illustrator).
[edit] Rogers Island llink is wrong
Could someone change the link on the text Rogers Island. the correct URL should be: http://www.rogersisland.org/
- That is already what the link is and has been for months. Rmhermen 21:09, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] History
Be nice to break out the attack on St. Francis into a separate article with somewhat more detail: reason for the attack, Rangers' losses, accusations of theft by Abenaki, St. Francis forced to move their village, etc. It could then be referenced from "French and Indian War," "Abenaki," etc.Student7 22:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Reconnaissance/Scouting
I appreciate both changes that were made to these words. However, the records will show that the group was tasked with "scouting." The word "reconnaissance" not being in general use at the time. I kind of liked the piping from one to the other. Obviously one editor found it jarring. How far back do we change the word? Did Caesar legionnaries "scout" or "conduct reconnaissance activities?" How about Joshua? Student7 13:06, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
- I find "scouting" to be a perfectly valid term and it's certainly more in touch with the time period; I just dislike piping. I'd prefer to avoid doing it if possible, but I wouldn't get into a revert war if you were to change it back. EvilCouch 02:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] St Francis link is wrong.
The link in the discussion of the raid on St Francis should link to Saint-François-du-Lac, not Saint-François. Saint-François-du-Lac is where the raid actually took place, Saint-François is entirely another city (over 60km apart, and on the wrong side of the St Lawrence River).
- I can't argue geography with you - you could be right, but entries in Wikipedia and the Catholic Encyclopedia for Francois de Sales mission, seems to be the same as where the attack took place. Maybe those sources are wrong, as well. Do you have a pointer/source that confirms "Francois du Lac"? We would certainly need that reference in order to justify any change.Student7 00:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- First off, here's the area I'm talking about http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&z=11&ll=46.052982,-72.782707&spn=0.229208,0.466919&om=1. If you zoom in, you'll notice three locations all grouped close together: St-François-du-Lac, Pierreville, and Odanak. If you scroll south-southwest along the large river (St Lawrence), you'll see the incorrect St-François on the island of Laval. From http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13348a.htm - "... near Pierreville" and "... In 1759 a strong New England force under Major Rogers surprised and destroyed the settlement, including the mission church and records, killing 200 Indians." From http://www.patrimoine-religieux.qc.ca/mission/missione.htm (4th paragraph)- "They then regrouped in Odanak..." and "It was pillaged and destroyed in 1759 by troops led by Rogers." From http://www.avcnet.org/ne-do-ba/rrr_4.html - St-François-du-Lac translates to "St Francis of the Lake", and it's right on the St Francis River that's mentionned as Rogers' escape route. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abenaki#Location - "Two large tribal communities formed near St-Francois-du-Lac and Bécancour." I think that should be plenty... sorry if it's formatted weirdly, I haven't contributed to wikipedia before, and didn't feel like signing up just for this correction. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.68.154.191 (talk) 01:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC).
- Oh, and I just checked the wikipedia and catholic encyclopedia links that you mentionned... it's the wikipedia one that's wrong as well, and because of the same confusion. The Catholic Encyclopedia article mentions the Yamaska region, which is http://www.cogeby.qc.ca/img/Le%20bv%20Yamaska.gif (well, that's the yamaska drainage basin, but it's the same area). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.68.154.191 (talk) 01:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC).
- Well, I guess I'm convinced. I've changed it. I also changed St. Francois du Lac, only in English, to reflect that it is was the target of Rogers Rangers. I also left a note for the other St. Francis that they weren't the correct one! My French is a "little" rusty, to say the least! If you wan't to amend the article yourself or leave something more comprehensible in French, someone might appreciate it, although I doubt there is much traffic there. Probably a good article to start on if you want to amend something. Incidentally, my links to English version did not seem to make the transition to the French discussion page.Student7 13:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- The change should also be made to the "Raid on Saint-François" link in the 'Battles' section on the sidebar. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.68.153.86 (talk) 15:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC).
- Well, I guess I'm convinced. I've changed it. I also changed St. Francois du Lac, only in English, to reflect that it is was the target of Rogers Rangers. I also left a note for the other St. Francis that they weren't the correct one! My French is a "little" rusty, to say the least! If you wan't to amend the article yourself or leave something more comprehensible in French, someone might appreciate it, although I doubt there is much traffic there. Probably a good article to start on if you want to amend something. Incidentally, my links to English version did not seem to make the transition to the French discussion page.Student7 13:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
