Talk:Saint George
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. | ||
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. [FAQ] | ||
 |
Saint George is part of the WikiProject Saints, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Saints on Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to saints as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to saints. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. |
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. |
| Top | This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale. |
 |
Saint George is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (country), an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on the country of Georgia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. | ||
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) |
||
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBT related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, visit the project page. Explanation for inclusion in WikiProject LGBT studies: Because Saint George has been proposed as the patron saint of same-sex matrimony,[1] the article is within the scope of this WikiProject. |
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class. |
[edit] "Reportedly"
"Reportedly" is used about a dozen times too many. This article reads like a 10th-grade research paper.
The alleged legendary aspects of the reported history of George apparently are not recorded in this probable entry. Why not? Saint George as it currently stands suppresses all the miraculous elements that were the actual basis for the historical George cult, so popular and widespread in medieval times. The alleged entry reportedly reports only those selected elements of the George legend that might pass for actual history. Some might possibly allege that this is misleading, and not up to Wikipedia's NPOV standards. Wetman 08:31, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
What if the dragon is just a sinonim for like an army or something? And the folks just used it to shorten the 'Hey dude George defated the huge army of the someguys in combat!' to 'hey George killed a dragon!Hehe COOL!'
Actually, many hold the view that the said ‘dragon’ was indeed a metaphor for Islamic hordes. St. George was a Christian Saint because he (the arm under his control) slaughtered the Islamic Dragon so to speak. I also agree that the word 'reportedly' is used too often.
- Islam did not make an appearance on the world's stage until the 7th Century, AD, while St. George lived in the 3rd Century, or thereabouts. Thus, unless you refer to the fact that the Crusading armies took St. George as one of their chief patrons, there is no way that he "slaughtered any Islamic hordes." --TheTriumvir 05:22, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
___________________________
I agree that "Reportedly" is used too much. Let´s make it better? Any additional information is either welcome. TonyJeff
For some really indepth study of St George and the convoluted history of his cult. I found a great source in Christopher Walter's book "The Warrior Saints in Byzantine Art and Traditions"
[edit] Arian Bishop of Alexandria?
Edward Gibbon was of the opinion that the original man on whom the legend was based was not quite so holy. He states, quite confidently, that during the Arian controversy, when the Arians had the upper hand in the battle to define the doctrine of the church, Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, was sticking to his anti-arian guns and making waves. He was thrown out by the powers that be and replaced by the Arian George of Cappadocia who Gibbon portrays as a money-grabbing, power hungry thug. Although he was unpopular with everyone it was the pagan residents of the city who rose up against him when they were encouraged by hearing that they had a pagan emperor in Julian the Apostate (as he is now known). Being killed by pagans meant that he was a martyr and his behaviour while alive was forgotten.
All of this may of course be rubbish - Gibbon may be a great and influential historian but his word is not gospel truth. So does anyone know if this version has any sources to back it up or was it nonsense which has been debunked over the last two centuries. --Spondoolicks 21:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Athanasius was replaced by a Gregory of Cappadocia who does not have his own article yet. Gibbon had apparently confused the two Cappadocians. User:Dimadick
[edit] In the Muslim world
St. George is also honored in the Muslim world under the name Al-Khadr.
[edit] St George as England's Patron Saint
Please could "superdude99" explain why my contribution regarding Ken Livingstone's refusal to allow a St. George's celebration in London has been deleted twice. This has been widely reported in the British press (both The Times and The Telegraph have given details) and I have written to the Mayor himself about it, not that he ever bothered to reply. It seems to me to be both a relevant and accurate addition.
The paragraph is portraying the Mayor of London in a biased light. "In recent years demands" - who is demanding? "have been turned down by the London Mayor" - I appreciate that you have tried contacting the Mayor to find an answer but without knowing the full story it is a far stretch to say that he personally turned it down. And if he did then I would suggest finding a reference of him doing so.
So I have amended the paragraph to remove both the reference to St Patrick (what conclusion is to be drawn from London celebrating one particular patron saint to another?) and to the current mayor (due to the reasons provided above). The only factual and relevant information that we can include here is that London does not currently celebrate this saints day. --NHawes 12:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
How exactly is London supposed to celebrate St. George's Day? The day isn't a public holiday anywhere in theUK- surely it would be up to the government in Westminster to declare the day a Bank Holiday and then let various municipalities hold some sort of celebration if they wanted to. The idea of Ken Livingstone, or any London mayor, having a big parade going along by the Thames on a working week day is ridiculous. And how would we even celebrate St. George's day? Are there any traditions associated with the day? Is there a history of celebrations? Or is this just some silly attempt by hysterical journalists to create a story and blabber on about "politcally correct" attacks on British values?
[edit] Sample Image
I am deleting a sample image on this page. It is a sample image and unneeded.--Matt D 00:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
- ok, so I attempted to delete the image but can't find it in the edit screen (!?!?) any help would be great. I will delete as it leads nowhere.--Matt D 00:39, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Palestine/Israel
An anon changed the link in the info box from Palestine to Israel.[2] I have decided to revert back since at the time this person existed, this area was called "Palaestina". — TheKMantalk 01:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
What happened to the section about what actually happened during his life.
[edit] anonymous pagan priest
He was named Athanasius (Αθανάσιος ο Μάγος) and he wasn't exactly a priest. One can check the synaxari or The Passion of St. George from patron saints index: St George. talk to +MATIA 09:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sant Jordi
Saint George is the patron of Catalonia as you can read in the article. The feast in Catalonia is to be the national day of lovers (like Valentine's day) but, recently, is being forgotten because of the international celebration of the 14th of February and because the same 23 of April is the UNESCO International day of Book and copyright. On that, it should be added that also Inca Garcilaso de la Vega and Josep Pla died that same day, although the last one died on 1981 and not on 1616 like Shakespeare, Cervantes and the first one. In Catalonia, the legend tells that from the blood of the dragon grew a red rose which he gave to the princess, and that's why in Catalonia men give red roses to women (women give books to men -- pressumibly for the book day). And, if I am not wrong, we do not say he cut the dragon's head off but he sticked his lancein his heart.
[edit] Other Saint Georges?
Wasn't there also another George who was matryed trying to aid Paul's escape from Damascus? I'm pretty sure that there were other St. George's in antiquity, as well as others more recent than the current one. If there are, I'll be happy to make a dismabiguation. Let me know on my talk page...--V. Joe 07:51, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Beefed up the intro
The introduction looked very small in comparison to most other articles, so I added a bit. I've also added a line that says "The flag of Saint George is now probably most visible when flown by supporters of England sporting teams." but I'm fairly sure that will be controversial. Maybe it shouldn't be there, but I think it's true. Kayman1uk 09:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Comic Book Reference
"A comic book, Aliens vs. Predator Annual #1, retold the story with the "dragon" of the legend revealed to be a Yautja, or Predator."
I've removed this as it's really nothing to do with the saint. I'll be kind and move it to the article George and the Dragon. Kayman1uk 09:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Use of the discussion page
Well, I'm going to continue summarising edits here even if no-one else wants to any more. Given that George seems to have an astonishingly wide range of patronage, it's worth drawing attention to that diverse group in the intro.
For what it's worth, I think the recent edits have dramatically improved the page, particularly the side-bar. Kayman1uk 11:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] George and the Dragon
Given that there is a main page dedicated to George and the Dragon, the amount of space dedicated to analysis of the story/myth/allegory here seemed excessive. I've thinned out that section considerably.
I accept that a significant amount of effort was put into this section by several people, and I would encourage them to merge their work into the relevant page, rather than lose it.
The approach I took to eliminating sentences was essentially (and completely subjectively) to keep what I thought were the most common/accessible references e.g. I kept Greek myths over Germanic and Indian ones, simply because the Greek ones tend to have filtered through into the English language a bit more. Let's discuss. Kayman1uk 12:31, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
- removing the Germanic and Vedic myths kinda misses the point; they showed that the dragon slaying myth is a pan-Indo-European tradition. The best way to illustrate that is to give examples from all branches of the family. --Krsont 12:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- That's a fair point but I think including further examples just expands the analysis of the myth on a page that should be about George. I'll have a go at incorporating your "pan-Indo-European" tradition comment, mention Germanic and Vedic myths (without being specific) and remove one of the greek ones to prevent the section growing again. Hope that sounds reasonable. Kayman1uk 15:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Someone written down on this section and I qoute "And he smells like a big ball of poo."
[edit] Countries and cities
As many countries and cities have George as patron saint, I deleted the three that were mentioned in the lead, for NPOV. --Matthead 21:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
- The guy is fresh from the block for revert warring and again at it. Seems like we have a new Molobo here. --Ghirla -трёп- 09:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
- Ghirla surrenders. Ad hominem attack does not replace arguments. --Matthead 11:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] STIHDJIA?
The only ref that contained the name STIHDJIA for the dragon that I could find that was not just a copy of this article on another site was
- "A Stone Carving Set Into A Wall Depicting Saint George Slaying The Dragon UK"
http://www.alamy.com/stock_photography/1/1/Adrian+Sherratt/AP1WH9.html
It was part of a list unattached to prose, likely put there to attact search-engines. I don't think this qualifies as confirmation. I'm skeptical on the name with this lack of refs. I'll keep looking.
- --Wowaconia 17:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no name given to the dragon anywhere on the web or in any of the books in Google books. There are lots of mirrored versions copying this article on the web and it looks like the only people naming this dragon is whoever first claimed its name was Stihdjia on this page. In essence this wikipedia article is inventing a name instead of encyclopedicly reporting a name. There is no source claiming this name anywhere, so asserting the name is Stihdjia is as frivilous as naming it Godzilla.--Wowaconia 20:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] St. George was born in Cappadocia and died in Lydda
This article has it backwards, so I am modifying it.
