Talk:Seine (fishing)

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[edit] Other kinds of seine?

I found this article after reading a mention of a "mullet seine" in a Carl Hiaasen novel but only the "purse seine" is covered here. Are there other kinds? --Arnoldlover 16:56, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

If you learn about other kinds of seine, please make an entry in this article. I don't know anything about them, except that my father visited Peru and spent a few days on a sardine fishing boat, which works with sardine seines. I am not qualified to write about them, however. Wadsworth 20:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image needed

I think it would be most helpful to have a photo or drawing of a seine so a new reader can better visualize what is discussed. --Arnoldlover 16:56, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where did all this text come from?

It seems slightly dubious that the majority of this article showed up rather suddenly from an anonymous user. I can't find a source but it resembles a copyvio to me. Also, it's not really entirely applicable to the subject. I don't want to start deleting stuff, but sometimes that would seem like the best solution. I'm not sure what to do in this situation. -- Krash 15:24, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

The text came from me. I'm a third generation commerical fisherman, and grew up on the fishing boats. I though I'd contribute my knowledge to this wonderful repository. Unfortunately, when I entered the text and made my initial corrections, I had neglected to log in. So it shows as anonymous. Is there a way to claim responsibility for this text after the fact? -- User:Wadsworth 6 October 2005

You just did. But in terms of edit history, I don't think there's any way to change that now.

It's good text. I'm not questioning its validity/authenticity/etc. It might be considered borderline NPOV dispute ("Now comes the funnest part, all fishermen agree: brailing"), but that's not really what I'm concerned about here. I'm having a difficult time applying what Wikipedia is not, particularly Wikipedia is not an instruction manual to the article. This article should be about a fishing net. Not how to use such a fishing net. Just seems like too much information – too much information that's not directly related to the subject. This is an encyclopedia. Perhaps this would be better at home at Wikibooks. -- Krash 15:20, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad you like my article. I wrote this before I read about NPOV, so you are certainly correct, the funnest part comment should go. I'll fix it. I disagree that describing the usage of an object is beyond the scope of an encyclopedia. Even the entry for can opener has information on how it is used. A purse seine is much more complicated, and I think there is value in preserving the information. Besides, am I wrong saying that it is much more interesting than a can opener? Also, there are no images in this article, and all the text I wrote taxes up a fraction of 1% of the disk spaced used by one of the two images of can openers in their article. This is far from an instruction manual. But it is enough information that if a person watched a video of a set, and followed along with this article, she would have a fair chance of identifying what was going on and why. -- Wadsworth 9 October 2005

I'm having a hard time with your comparison to can opener. I find very few--if any--similarities between the instructional portions of each article. One sums it up in about a sentence. The other goes on for some umpteen paragraphs. You're neither right nor wrong; that you find a purse seine more interesting than a can opener is your opinion. I'm not concerned with Wikimedia's disk space, I'm sure they have plenty of it. But I am concerned that this is unencyclopedic. That doesn't mean I don't think it's true or verifiable or accurate. I just don't think it belongs. I'm listing this page at Wikipedia:Third opinion just to see what someone else might have to say on the subject. -- Krash 01:59, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

According to the dictionary, "Encyclopedia: a work that contains information on all branches of knowledge or treats comprehensively a particular branch of knowledge usually in articles arranged alphabetically often by subject." This article provides information on the subject of purse seining. I'm really not sure what the problem is.

I don't think that the article is actually like an instruction manual. I see it more as a description of the process used in this type of fishing, which is totally appropriate. There is a distinction between giving advice and describing a process. I'm a patent lawyer, so I do both regularly. To the extent that the article reads like an instruction manual, that can be changed, but I don't think that's really what this article is about. COGDEN 17:27, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the description of the process goes into excessive detail, especially regarding aspects of the fishing that aren't directly related to the actual net and its use. The Literate Engineer 19:52, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I think Wadsworth did a very good job explaining the process of making a set, and Alaska seining in general. As a Kodiak seiner, I very much appreciate his eye for detail and cogent, lucid explanation of the process. The fact that he also explains some of the emotions involved in the process makes me smile at the accuracy and the in-depth, firsthand knowledge he uses to inform the reader. I am quite happy with the article, as this information isn't widely available elsewhere. I would only add that sac-roe herring seining is, for the purposes of this article, practically identical with the exception that much more care and a few other techniques are used to keep the net from sinking. With the typically larger amounts of fish and heavier sets, and the herring's propensity for dying and sinking as well as "conking" or pushing the net down, it's easy to understand how a large set of herring can and has sunk boats and killed crew. Generally, buoyant bouys are tied to the corkline after pursing to prevent the net and fish from sinking everything. Herring seining is usually a highly competitive, pressure packed situation for the fisherman as the season is sometimes only open in a given place (like Togiak) for 20 minutes at a time! "Bait" herring, typically herring caught before they are ready to spawn, for bait and food, is a different matter. It's generally done at night and, as even a small light will frighten the fish to dive below net level, usually the only light available to guide the fishermen is bioluminescence from disturbed plankton in the wake of the skiff and seine. It's a very exciting, although nerve wracking, process for the fishermen! As seining bait herring is only legal under very specific times and places in Alaska, I don't think this explanation is very important for this article.

I'm debating putting in some information on the management and measures used by managers to regulate harvests and ensure sustainability of Alaskan and Canadian salmon and herring fisheries. Is this beyond the scope of the article? Allpoints 74.61.116.21 11:55, 29 December 2006 (UTC)