Talk:Siegfried Sassoon

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Blanked this page rather than deleting it. I don't really care if people try to use a talk page as a chat room as long as they don't delete anything useful. Deb 07:09, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry to advise that George Sassoon, Siegfried's son, passed away on 7 or 8 March 2006 in the United Kingdom. (rockywood1959@yahoo.com.au)

Contents 1 Photographs 2 neurasthenia and shell shock 3 New edits 3.1 Deleted image 3.2 On Passing the New Menin Gate

[edit] Photographs

I'm currently trying to find the copyright holder of the first photograph. On the chance that I am unable to secure that I found another photo of Siegfried taken by his son George. I have written to the copyright holder of that photo in an attempt to secure permission to post that photo. Wjbean 13:18, 2005 May 3 (UTC)

I think we're clear if the photographer died before 1955 - as the word would then be public domain -, but the law in question confuses the hell out of me anyway. Hmm. There's bound to be at least one public-domain image of him out there, given he was well-known at a fairly young age. Shimgray 13:38, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

That could well be, but since it's an English as opposed to American photograph the copyright might be a bit different. Still, in an effort to find the person(s) whose permissions might be required I ran across another photo of Siegfried in his fifties. This one was taken by his son George. I've written to the publisher asking permission to use it here, but have not yet heard back from them. I have also written to the publisher of the photo at the top of the page and have not heard back from them either. Wjbean 20:36, 2005 May 31 (UTC)

Haven't seen that last photo before - I rather like it. Deb 17:27, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

From what I understand this photo was taken by George Sassoon, Siegfried's son. Any idea why we don't have an entry for George? I've tried to find him on the internet and the only George Sassoon I've found is a George T. Sassoon. He wrote a book with a scientist about the possibility that the Arc of the Covenant was a Manna making machine given to the early Hebrews by extraterrestrials. Here's a link. http://www.mystae.com/streams/science/machine2.html. This Sassoon is in the U.K.

Finally there may be a problem with the last two images. WikiCommons policy does not allow fair use. e.g. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Licensing#Material_under_the_Fair_Use_Clause_is_not_allowed_on_the_Commons

Wjbean 18:34, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)

That George Sassoon is, as I understand it, the same chap - look at the bottom of the page. Shimgray 20:07, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I believe it is the same person. George Sassoon has some non-mainstream interests. I suppose the fact that he's an author as well as SS's son means that he could be notable enough for his own article, but it's difficult to find out much about him. He is an honorary patron of the SSF but he does not like to talk about his father or get involved in any events. Deb 21:06, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Update! Well I heard from a Barbara Levy who says she represents George Sassoon. They want 100 pounds for a two year license. This translates to $182.00 in today's dollars. Of course, there's no way I'm going to pay that much for a free content site. Oh well. The image has been removed. Wjbean 17:16, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

New Update! I heard from George T. Sassoon via email. He has granted permission for use of this photograph. "You are welcome to use the photograph of him by the sundial with the present acknowledgement." George T. Sasson via email. Wjbean 13:11, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How lovely of him. Thanks, Mr Sassoon! Deb 16:28, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

He's sent me another which I like even better. I've asked his express permission to use it. Deb, I think the Sassoon Family as whole and as individuals deserve entries here. His mother was obviously as talented as his father. And there's no question in my mind that George has talents as well. He's an accomplished linguist (having mastered Arameic and Hebrew) as well as an author. We can see that he's also a pretty good photographer. Wjbean 16:32, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Have you run across The Sassoons (~1968)? I flicked through a copy in a charity shop the other day - didn't have much cash on me, sadly, or I'd have picked it up. Quite the intriguing family; definitely worth an article. (You got some really interesting groups kicking around in the 1850s...) Shimgray 18:43, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There's an article on Uncle Hamo, which I created a while back. Theresa might merit an article, but I doubt that Alfred would. Deb 21:20, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'll see if I can find a copy somewhere. I had read that the Sassoon's were part of the "Salon" set in the late 1800s. A wealthy and well respected British family. I know too that the Thornycroft's produced a number of sculptors. So what do you think of the new pics? Wjbean 00:50, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] neurasthenia and shell shock

"Rather than court-martial Sassoon, the military authorities decided that he was unfit for service, and sent him to Craiglockhart War Hospital near Edinburgh, where he was officially treated for neurasthenia ('shell shock')."

I'm no expert but would not have thought that neurasthenia was the same as shell shock. The first was also known as nervous exhaustion, or a form of clinical depression, the second is what we would now call post-traumatic stress disorder. Anyone able to clear this up? Flapdragon 01:09, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

I've seen a copy of the admissions book for Craiglockhart; everyone in it (with possibly one or two exceptions) is down as "neurasthenia". The concept of shellshock wasn't well understood, then, and a lot of the medical terms applied were either different from how they'd be used in a contemporary sense - or simply misdiagnoses. It's generally accepted, I believe, that most of the neurasthenic cases were likely forms of PTSD, just not seen as such. Shimgray 01:15, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I suppose in an ideal world someone would amend the neurasthenia article to that effect (i.e. that it could cover shell-shock/PTSD), and likewise at shell-shock (combat stress reaction) - but I for one am not remotely qualified to do that. Flapdragon

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Note to Sassoon enthusiasts -- this may be a good opportunity and place to mention that the annual conference of the Siegfried Sassoon Fellowship will take place on Saturday, 1st October, at Marlborough College, Wiltshire. Deb 17:22, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Why is Sassoon in the category of Jewish-British people? Doesn't the Jewish faith descend from the mother's side? Furthermore, since he converted to Catholicsm later in life, shouldn't we include him in a category "Catholic British people"?

I agree. And now a plug for the 2006 conference (it is of course the 120th anniversary of Sassoon's birth) and we will be meeting at Brenchley in Kent, near his birthplace, on Saturday, September 9th. Get in touch with me for more details. Deb 17:51, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New edits

I think most of the edits by the anon were reasonable, and I suspect the source is Max Egremont's new biography. Not sure about Canon Loraine being half-Jewish, though, or about Alfred Sassoon's mother going into mourning. Deb 12:45, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The edits were so large that the 'compare versions' tool made it almost impossible to determine what if anything had changed, and as there was no edit summary, I felt the best thing was to revert. We can try to identify and re-introduce the changes more incrementally along with appropriate edit summaries. Of course, it would be easier for the original contributor(s) to do this. — Stumps 14:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Deb 18:14, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted image

What was the reason for deleting the photograph of the older Sassoon? Deb 16:59, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

It was probably unsourced. Arniep 20:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

It was the second of George Sassoon's photos, as mentioned above by Wjbean. I think it should be restored. Deb 11:46, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On Passing the New Menin Gate

I find it difficult to accept that a lengthy article could be written about Siegfried Sassoon that does not mention On Passing the New Menin Gate. I will attempt to rectify this soon. Ben-w 13:08, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Good for you! It's worthy of a mention. Deb 14:15, 28 January 2007 (UTC)