Talk:The Raincoats

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The manager of the subject of this article, The Raincoats, has edited Wikipedia as Shirley O (talk • contribs).

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[edit] Names

After editing The Raincoats page User Lessheard vanU made some insulting remarks arising from his insistence that we stick to Wiki policy regarding use of surnames. I have compromised with this and included full names as he twice edited out our use of first names. I am concerned about his intention to put this page on his watchlist and hope he will respect our right to spell our names correctly and write our history without threat. Shirley O'Loughlin for The Raincoats. 2340, 22 April 2006

The page was on my Watchlist. Under the circumstances I have, with this message, removed it.

Please be assured that my only concern is that the article stays in. If you feel that you were insulted, then you are limited in your understanding of the concept of debate (that is an insult; I'm not sure where the "threats" or other "insults" occur.) I hope this article survives. I'm outta here...LessHeard vanU 23:04, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

O'Loughlin and vanU, you both need to stop talking about each other and start talking about the article per Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Hyacinth 22:48, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it resolved itself. They are the experts on The Raincoats - I am keen on keeping (most things, ta for the reminder about personal attacks) to Wiki standards. They are editing to those standards, so I have no reason to interfere. I suppose the template you added was just a clarification, and nothing to do with any likely subjective editing. I don't believe that is their sort of thing.LessHeard vanU 22:27, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Ana, Gina and Shirley, I am so sorry you have run into this particular person. If it's any help, with the posturing he is just desperately looking for your attention. I think it is possible to semi-protect pages on Wikipedia to avoid this kind of boorish behaviour. (T.Amor 12:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC))

Both myself, Ana and Gina edited the contribution considerably in February both factually and historically and with correct names and spelling of those names. We will be adding lyrics etc and more information soon. The information about Steve Shelley and Pete Shelley is correct - Pete Shelley just needs the link to the Buzzcocks. We respect Wikipedia and contributions that users make, but we hope that user LessHeardvanU will respect our right to write our own history. Shirley O'Loughlin for The Raincoats. 2300, 22 April 2006

I have no problem with the facts as presented, as it is your history (although some editors may disagree about people using their own webpages to substantiate details they had contributed) and you are the default expert(s). However (there is always a "however") to keep articles in Wikipedia they have to conform to a standard, and there are policies that apply to all subjects. Articles not complying to these standards can very quickly be nominated for deletion. I believe that if The Raincoats article were deleted* it would be a great pity since Wikipedia is used as a source for many other websites, and the band (and all involved) were (are?) very important culturally as well as musically. (*I'm not saying it will - just that it makes it much more likely).

The independence of Wikipedia means that all articles need to conform to a policy that has Neutral Point of View (NPOV) at its core. Familiarity, even in the case where it is justified on the part of the contributor, does not reflect that policy when viewed by a third party. As I suggested, it would not be healthy if every "interest" group were allowed to dictate how their articles should appear - there are some subjects where this would be certainly very quickly abused - and, of course, this has to be democratically applied to everyone.

I am really sorry that this is a matter of dispute. I will link the Pete Shelley text and stuff, and leave the article alone thereafter. I hope that you will take on board my concerns (this is Wiki's website, and it is their policy - you have your own to present as you please). If you do find that the article is listed for deletion, or has a notice stuck on it requiring it be "improved", feel free to contact me (by clicking my username and going to my talk page) if you want my help. Whatever.LessHeard vanU 22:42, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More info requested

There has got to be more info somewhere, anybody who knows anything about the raincoats please post it. It is sorely needed, I can't even find lyrics for them.

[edit] The Raincoats were an important band...

...and this article needs to reflect it. Please note that Wiki policy is that individuals should be referred to, initially, by forename and surname and then surname only in any one section/paragraph. I know, why don't I do it? Well, if you have a lot of patience I will have a go - but I have already committed myself to a few other articles and will not have time in the near future. Anyone reading this, please spend a few moments tidying up the article. Ta. LessHeard vanU 21:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I've done the surname bit. There is a bit of solo text where the collaboraters with Gina Birch are only indicated by a first name (I assume). The surname/full name of the artist is needed. Earlier in the text two different Shelleys are mentioned; Steve and Peter. Peter Shelley is the singer with Buzzcocks, and since this wasn't mentioned it is likely the reference should be to Steve - whose background is given. Since I don't know too much about this band I am unwilling to change it. Perhaps someone who knows can do the honours...? Dammit, despite my best intentions I am going to have to put this article on my watchlist!LessHeard vanU 22:09, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

(Especially to 82.25.179.185) Whatever the Raincoats policy may be, this is an encyclopedia and to keep articles in you have to follow their policy. This band is far too important to be struck out over a dispute over presentation. If anyone feels the need to discuss this then I do have a chat page. However, a look at Wikipedia:Policy may be useful.LessHeard vanU 20:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)