Talk:The Residents
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"Given that their members speak only through their work, however, even their attitudes can only be inferred." The Residents have given interviews, so this is quite untrue. Google will find you several and Tape Op ran one a year or so ago. I suppose technically the interviews often are attributed to Cryptic Corporation spokespeople, though in one online interview the interviewer said "So, the theory of obscurity is over?" or somethiing to that extent, and the interviewees (the two HF's) concurred.Xproudfoot 21:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please substantiate the claim this article makes about one of the former members attempting suicide? -- TheKyleD 6:21, 24 Apr 2005
I was very impressed after their concert in Warsaw on Sept. 9, 2001. As to their identity - there were 6 people on stage, one of which was evidently a woman. -- WojPob
- I saw them in San Francisco that year with my pregnant wife (which explains a lot regarding my daughter's recent behavior!) That was Molly Harvey and Mr Skull with three Residents and a guest musician, I believe. Great show!
- but what does their music sound like? --The_stuart 21:57, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Like nothing you've heard before. Buy Eskimo and listen to it yourself. 96T 20:37, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I was fortunate to be a friend of one of The Residents for several years and was slightly acquainted with another, c. 1981 - 1995 or so. They are very cool, kind, intelligent and motivated people who have, to their great credit, managed to do well for many years without compromising their creative impulses one bit. There are some things that I think are okay to say at this point, especially considering that even the biggest "secret" of all was revealed by The Face magazine in the 1980s. None of The Residents have ever attempted suicide. There is no female in the band. You cannot trust that "The Residents" in disguise at public appearances and concerts are the actual Residents, although the musicians hired to play them are strictly instructed on how to "be the Residents" and how to play by the actual Residents. This should be clear to recent concert goers, as "the singer," who is one of the "real" Residents, is not one of the four disguised "Residents." His voice is very distinctive. Anyone familiar with their recorded material will recognize that this is the same guy who has always been their primary vocalist. Even though the true identity of The Residents has already been publicly revealed, I won't reiterate that revelation here. It's more fun to keep a bit of mystery going, and besides, the Residents have always eschewed "rock star" adulation.
[edit] stolen eye mask
"Backstage at a show on Christmas of 1986, one member's eyeball mask was stolen, so it was replaced with a giant skull mask. The eye was returned in 1985 by a devoted fan who discovered where the thief lived and stole it back."
-Umm, is this a typo or is time travel now part of The Residents mythology? A mask is stolen Christmas '86 and returned in '85?
Benjamin Ickies
Yes, you're right. It was stolen on December 26th 1985, I'll fix it.
I also believe that the incident about the stolen eyeball should not be under "early history". The mid-80s is certainly not early history for the Residents. I think it should be moved in a new category, something like "various information" or "various myths" etc. but I don't know how to do it. Thank you for your time. - Thehar
[edit] Big Secrets
The Residents are not actually mentioned in the book "Big Secrets", it's just that the author who's famous for these books, has had a go at this secret as well. So I changed that back. Juryen 10:05, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
- It's not in William Poundstone's Big Secrets, but one of the two sequels; namely, either Bigger Secrets or Biggest Secrets. All of which are a great read, I might add. ProhibitOnions (T) 18:18, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 193.218.90.23 is an idiot
He added links to all this ridiculous stuff, like speculation and history. Can anyone revert this without losing the new stuff we got during this time? What an asshole.
Yes, hi, I am 193.218.90.23. Perhaps what I did was a mistake, but I didn't mean no harm. What's wrong with adding links to stuff existent in Wikipedia, even if they are 'ridiculous' by your standards? If I am mistaken, please correct me, and I would appreciate it if you told me why what I did was wrong. There is no need for name-calling. And please sign who you are. Thank you. --193.218.90.23 16:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] River of Crime
Could someone please add the info for river of crime? Thank you.
[edit] Link to Myspace.com
Somehow, the link to www.myspace.com/theresidents does not function. Does anyone know how this can be fixed?
[edit] Cromagnon
When ZYX Music reissued the album Cave Rock by the 60s psychedelic rock group Cromagnon in the mid-90s, there were rumours that members of Cromagnon later went on to form the Residents. There is some discourse on that here and also here. Morganfitzp 16:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- I think we should definitely add something about cromagnon and the rumours surrounding, because after all, there isn't an article about cromagnon itself. (anonymous user – please sign your posts with 3 or 4 "~'s!)
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- Where would this rumour go in the article? It doesn't fit with the alleged events that led to the group's formation in the late 1960s. Morganfitzp 21:43, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
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- I think It could go in its own section. Perhaps a "Alternate history rumors" section.67.165.80.5 19:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
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I removed the reference to the group Cromagnon, since it's just a minor, disproven speculation and doesn't contribute to anything to the article. Contents were:
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- Some believe that psychadelic 60's avant-rock group Cromagnon (Who released Orgasm/Cave Rock) went on to become The Residents. This opinion is enhanced by the sound of Cromagnon, one that resembles that of The Residents. However, the belief is hampered by Cromagnon being based in Connecticut, a far cry from the California coast, and a lack of familiar-sounding vocalists.
So you see, it's just a rumor and doesn't deserve its own section. You can add a sentence about it along with the other rumors at the end of the second section if you want, but don't add it as its own section. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 08:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Could someone please verify the addition about the Dutch band? I've never heard this rumor before...67.165.80.5 18:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
The list of bands that have been rumored to have gone on to form the Residents is quite long. IMHO nothing makes Cromagnon special enough for mention here.Funkeboy 09:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Handicapped Resident
I was looking through the third reich n roll booklet and saw that one of the residents in the pictures has crutches or some walking assistants,anyone know anything about this.
Yes, it's nothing more than an illustration. The Residents are not disabled.
[edit] Merge Timmy (The Residents) in to this article.
- I'm undecided between merging that article into this one, or just moving for it to be deleted as it's just a copy/paste quote. TS1 20:15, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
We may be able to expand and convert it into something worthwhile. And by we, I mean you guys, as I've never played Midway and details on it are scarce.--Agent Aquamarine 02:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I rewrote the article to avoid copyvios. I think we should keep it as a separate article, as it is another project by the Residents and all other projects have their own articles. Seems notable enough for me. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 03:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
That's a good start, mate. Perhaps a bit more information on what goes on in Midway. (But for all I know, nothing of note actually happens to Timmy)--Agent Aquamarine 22:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Identity
The comments about Copyright law and the BMI royalties arrangements in the article are incorrect. I am an intellectual property lawyer. The Copyright Act requires that the actual authors of the compositions be listed in the application as "authors." The "claimant" line is separate, meaning that the claimant to the copyrights can be different from the "author(s" but the "author(s)" must still be specified. Now, an "author" may register a copyright under a pseudonym, but when this is done, the application must indicate that the author's contribution is pseudonymous. The copyright registrations for the Residents compositions were not obtained under a pseudonym and the "authors" are a matter of public record. This is the one "mistake" the Residents made, and unfortunately could do nothing about (other than "spin" it, as reflected in the article 801greg 08:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
(Identity of The Residents removed by the same person who posted it. The below response is correct. It's more fun not knowing.)
Could it be a logical theory that the Residents is simply a collective name for a number of musicians who would like to expand their knowledge of music?- Count. Oldlesnare
- Doesn't matter who they are. We play along, it's just more fun that way. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 22:54, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
- I would add that you can never really be sure. For instance, it has been said that Homer Flynn is the singer. Yet in some DVDs from tours he can be clearly seen shooting a video with his camera, while the singer is on stage. Ergo, he cannot be the same person, except if he is a wizard (which wouldn't surprise me coming from the Residents...)--130.235.141.174 15:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Me again, the guy who keeps changing his mind about whether or not the time is right to be explicit about the identities. I don't mean to be rude, but one can be sure if one knows them. :-) The singer has always been the same man. Please bear in mind that the group loves playing with expectations and identity-hunters. The actual Residents musician(s) never actually play live, and if I understand correctly, have not since at least the early 1970s. Only the singer actually plays live, BUT he sometimes has other people play "the singer," just as the musician(s) do.
- Actually, the keyboard player/midi controller also plays live. There are two Residents (at least presently), and both are almost always on stage. Also, where does the article get Slidell, Louisiana from, as the residence of the Residents? Both of the primary (and current) Residents went to Byrd High School in Shreveport. Publicly available database records also reveal that their parents lived and died there, and the Residents did too. They also appear on a rare album compilation (first released on cassette) entitled, "It Came From Shreveport," which has all local bands. I am not sourcing these discussion points, nor adding them to the article, because, to prove what I have just said, I would have to reveal their identities, and I will not.801greg 08:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Friends, what is this fuss all about? The answer regarding the identity of the Residents is simple (and given in the Demons Dance Alone project): there are no Residents; and on the same time the band has remained completely unchanged. I think the answer to that riddle is obvious: There are no Residents outside the studio and outside the stage. It is the creative spark within us all that these people (whose names are irrelevant) let manifest in whichever way it deems appropriate and they let it speak of its own. That is the true Resident, and it exists inside us all. With honor, --Theoharis 16:32, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
- In the the spirt of "it doesn't matter," I think this portion of the article needs to be moved to the bottom. It distracts from what's most important about The Residents: their body of work. And darn the thing, I've worked with them on more than one occasion and they still won't fess up :) - Purple Penguin 143.229.178.135 05:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Settle Down and Do Some Research
The Residents are one of those things (or groups of things, rather) that should be researched extensively before writing about it. Anyone who's been reading articles on them over the last thirty years should be shaking their head at this article and the changes that have been made to it. I think maybe people should have to be certified in Residential lore before being allowed to alter this page. The rumors are part of their history (and their art, sometimes).
The point is, the article seems to be trying to be too specific. It's the Residents--anyone writing anything in this article should know that everything s/he is typing might be total bullshit--and that should at least be somewhat reflected in the text, unless we want to lose our readers.
One writer (after trying to write an article on the Residents and finding it very difficult) once said that he got the impression that journalists and music critics were supposed to make part of the lore up as they went along, since neither the Residents nor the Cryptic Corporation liked giving complete answers.
That having been said, there is one "fact" in this article that is grossly incorrect: "They formed in 1972 and released their first record that year..." Now read the Early History section. How could they have formed in 1972 if they got their name based on a rejected demo tape from 1971? Then, they even performed and released another "pre-album" under the name "Residents" before their first official release, Santa Dog, even came about in 1972.
I would rewrite it, but all this typing has made me tired.
Funkeboy 10:48, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] New Section
I'm thinking of a new section about the constant collaborators of the band (the "R-Band" as some have called them). But where would this section go? Suggestions? Objections? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Santa Dog 72 (talk • contribs) 21:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Weasel words, POV, and lack of citations plague this article
This article reads like it was written by the Residents or their publicist. Lots of "probably" and "one might say/speculate/infer" etc. Also, there are no citations to many of the factual assertions... eg.:
"Much of the speculation about the members' true identities swirls around their management team, known as "The Cryptic Corporation." Cryptic was formed by Jay Clem, Homer Flynn, Hardy Fox, and John Kennedy in 1976, all of whom denied having been band members."
Where is this speculation happening? Is it being written down somewhere? I assume there is speculation on fan pages, etc. which could be documented.
- Lots of this speculation is/was presented on the Smelly Tongues email list.
Where do we get the info about the formation of Cryptic and its members? Articles of Incorporation are public record. In what state is Cryptic incorporated?
Where do Hardy, Fox, and Kennedy deny being band members?
The tone of the entire article is like this. DougRWms 04:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- Are you seriously asking or just trying to make a point? There are tons upon tons of articles from the 70s that play back and forth with the Cryptics admitting and then denying that they're the Residents. I can't cite them because I can't find them. They were from publications like Melody Maker and New Music Express. Funkeboy 23:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "One might speculate..."
"One might be inclined to speculate that The Residents feel artists do their best work without the influence of an audience, should only be judged by their work, and that a band members' genders, ethnicities, line-up changes, personalities, and daily life outside of the band should be irrelevant to listeners."
I've edited this out twice, and it's been put back in twice, so maybe I'm just doing it wrong... This is just blatant speculation (at best) or Residents lore (at worst) with no basis whatsoever. One might also speculate that the Residents hide their faces because they're ugly, because they are aliens, or because they want to hide their herpes sores. One might speculate that the Residents hide their faces because they think it's a cool gimick. One might speculate that the Residents went to the top of mount Siani, where God appeared to them in the form of a burning bush, and ordered them to go forth and put on rubber eyeball masks and make albums...
Eclipsed Moon, who has re-added the "One might be inclined to speculate" quote each time I've removed it, leaves me the note "Come on, N. Senada's Theory of Obscurity" The N. Senada article says... "Theory of Obscurity" Senada's "Theory of Obscurity" states that an artist can only produce pure art when the expectations and influences of the outside world are not taken into consideration. Senada and his theory are referred to exclusively in connection with avant garde musical group The Residents.
But N. Senada is apparently a fictional character created by the Residents... If there's really a theory of obscurity, then the article shouldn't say "one might speculate"...
- N. Senada is presumed to be a tongue-in-cheek reference to Captain Beefheart. The home the Magic Band lived in together and rehearsed Trout Mask Replica for a year in, was located on Ensenada Drive in Woodland Hills, California. Also, Beefheart used a "fake name," thus connecting him to the theory of obscurity, though, in reality, he did not hide who he was to the extent the Residents try to do. Beefheart's real name, -- Van Vliet (actually Vliet) provides the German connection, leading the Residents to refer to N. Senada as a Bavarian composer. It's all in fun. 801greg 08:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Editing of this article should be restricted, and the article culled to remove the ubiquitous uncited assertions. That would basically leave us with the discography, since the rest of the piece is wrought with (probabally intentionally) contradictory information.DougRWms 07:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- The Residents openly claim to follow this Theory of Obscurity. If N. Senada is a fictional character is irrelevant, since they justify their mystery with this theory. So, one might speculate may be a bad way to put it, but the point remains unchanged, and it is in no way a reason to completely remove that from the article.
- Also, mystery and speculation are key aspects of The Residents lore, and the official information known is contradictory and deliberately made obtuse and wrong. It's no wonder the article looks wildly inaccurate, because that's just like it is with anything about the group. We could use some sources, though, but sourcing rumours (and that's as good as it gets) is quite a hard task. — Kieff 07:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
If the Residents claim openly to follow this theory, then the passage should read "The Residents claim to follow the Theory of ...." etc. Saying "well, everything about the Residents is obscure" doesn't make the lack of citation and concrete information excusable. Wikipedia is not supposed to be Encyclopedia as Performance Art; the criterion for citations and NPOV should be consistent across articles, and that quote is simple speculation, and as such inappropriate to Wikipedia.DougRWms 09:44, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, I quite agree with you, but what should Wikipedia do in the case of artists deliberately lying about themselves and playing little rumor games with everyone? All we can do is mention these facts and the official (how would we even confirm that?) information with explicit warnings of possible nonsense. As I see it, that's the general aim of the article, though it's far from optimal (no sources and etc.) My writing skills aren't par for that sort of work, though, nor is my knowledge on Residents lore (which is a bit, but not a lot) — Kieff 10:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Borat, Harry Potter, and the school that educates Harry Potter have their own articles, so as far as I'm personally concerned, N. Senada, the Theory of Obscurity, and the Theory of Phonetic Organization are all valid subjects for articles, as well as sources for valid opinions and/or speculations on the Residents in this article. Most official text on the Residents that you'll ever read uses words like "speculate," "allegedly," etc. all over the place, because there are NO FACTS concerning the Residents. None. Thus, opinions and speculations by fans are almost more factual than anything said by the Cryptic Corporation or N. Senada, which in turn is probably more factual than anything said by a Resident. If you want facts, you should be writing an article on the Cryptic Corporation (which isn't a bad idea). Funkeboy 23:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, no one denies that it's appropriate for fictitious persons (Don Quixote, the Easter Bunny, James Bond, etc.) to have articles! But there ARE FACTS about the Residents, like the facts that they have released certain albums, etc.
Anyway, that's not why I removed the "one might speculate" comment which has been re-inserted twice, and which I have given up trying to correct. It's just so blatently weasel-word and non-NPOV, but since no one cares or even seems to understand the concept at issue, screw it.
Kieff, you are right to compare the writing in this article to the kind of self-serving crap that stars and celebs have their publicists write on Wikipedia. Maybe an "encyclopedia" which allows anyone to write, edit, and in effect control articles can never really be anything but a half-assed version of MyPage. But in answer to your question "what should Wikipedia do" about such, I would answer "We are Wikipedia." We can edit the articles in question to remove non NPOV language and (at least) redflag uncited assertions or speculation.
Anyway, I'll go correct the spelling in a stub or something, and forget about this article. I'm sure the Residents will continue to get along just fine without me.DougRWms 08:35, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] does not need to exist to be real
the influence N. Senada had on my work has proven effective. I'm now somewhat famous in China, by following through with the ideas presented. N. Senada's influence and the validity of this theory of obscurity as a means of producing effective artistic expressions is terribly important and should be considered as a thing in itself, outside of the residents. this article should not be merged. I feel pretty strongly about this, strongly enough that I'll jump into the discussion with only the barest understanding of this whole wikipedia thingy. -wu
You've become somewhat famous by adhering to the Theory of Obscurity...?DougRWms 08:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Regarding N. Senada
copied from the main article
My name is Steve Crabtree. In 1982 I met Snakefinger at a solo show at JB's Underground in Kent, Ohio. Mr. Finger was an American. He was definately not of european descent and I asked him about N. Senada. He told me that he had never met N. Senada in peraon, that Mr. Senada had only sent the band tapes. Snakefinger died a few years later of a heart defect and we will miss his strange guitar. At the show in Kent Ohio he was polaying a guitar neck attached to a sheet of plywood, he used a slide and introduced his band as the "Dead Residents." This was after the release of bhis second album. Les Claypool was conspicuously absent. -- User:75.163.134.138
