User talk:Thend

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A tag has been placed on Ryan Pape, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable, that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert notability may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is notable, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (below the existing db tag) and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Realkyhick 04:02, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scott Coffrin

A tag has been placed on Scott Coffrin, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable, that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert notability may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is notable, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (below the existing db tag) and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Realkyhick 04:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Government

The article The Government already exists, and refers to a band from Ontario. Unless you can show sources (charted songs, articles in independent publications, etc.) that prove the band's notability, it is likely that a separate article about the Connecticut band will be marked for speedy deletion. Realkyhick 04:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

First of all, the link to the Google video does not work for some reason, but merely having a video posted there does not indicate notability. Second, a Google search for "The Government" connected to the keywords "band", "Westbrook" or "alternative" turned up zero hits related to the band, and the only result when using any of the band member names was the Myspace page. Third: I think a line on the Myspace page says it best: "We are a generic rock band..." No charting albums, no mention in any independent sources -- all I see here is a local club or garage band. That's not notable. Sorry, but I stand by my request for speedy deletion for all of the band member articles. Realkyhick 04:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding your comment, "The local music scene is just as notable as the national, famous circuit..." No, it's not, at least not by Wikipedia standards. Wikipedia is a worldwide online encyclopedia, not one that just concerns Connecticut or even the U.S. There are tons of local bands that have been playing for years, but they're still not notable by WP standards. If they were truly notable, something, somewhere would have showed up about the band or at least one of its members on Google. But I tried multiple combinations of the band name, the members' names, and the words "band" or "alternative" or "rock." All Google found was the Myspace page. If the band were truly notable and had been around for years as you claim, something would have showed up from an independent source -- a newspaper review of a show or album, a local magazine article, something at all. But it didn't. If you can provide some links to independent, credible, verifiable sources — not web sites run by the band or people it has hired, not a Myspace page or anything else the band has published itself or paid to have published on its behalf — you will bolster your case significantly.

Moreover, even if the band met the notability standards, I doubt that the individual members would on their own, unless they have achieved some level of notability through solo work or something else that could be verified. If the band did prove notable enough for its own article (why haven't you written an article about the band as a whole, by the way? You can title it "The Government (U.S. band)" to differentiate it from the band in Canada already listed), you could put information about the individual members there.

Until you can provide some sources, I continue to stand by my request for deletion. Realkyhick 16:28, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE: Apparently an administrator has agreed that the articles should be deleted, and done so. (I'm not an admin, so I can't do it myself.) You may repost the articles, but unless you provide more of the sources I mentioned, the articles will be proposed for deletion again. Again, you will stand a better chance if you write a single article about the band, perhaps with separate sections in it about each member. But you've got to have some sort of sources, Realkyhick 16:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Let's take a deep breath here

Thend, this isn't a personal thing. From what I heard of The Government on their Myspace site, they're a perfectly good band. But there are lots of perfectly good bands out there, toiling away on local club scenes, that also haven't achieved the level of notoriety to meet Wikipedia guidelines. How good a band is only affects a band's notoriety in that other independent sources recognize the quality, and write about it in some form or fashion. But The Gov doesn't have any sources other than its own web site, its own Myspace site, and the personal web site of one of its members. Those aren't independent sources. If you know of one or more articles in some kind of local or regional paper or magazine, and could give citations for those sources, that would likely be enough to make the band notable by WP standards. But right now, all we have to go on is you saying, "I know good music and good bands, and these guys are good and therefore notable." That's just your word against anyone else's, and that doesn't meet WP guidelines. If it did, I could post articles about all sorts of musicians here in central Alabama who don't meet the current WP guidelines, and they'd be notable just because I say they are.

I'll propose this solution again: Post the article(s) again. Articles which have been speedy-deleted are allowed to be re-posted, up to a point. There's a good chance that another editor will put a speedy-delete tag on it again (I won't, just out of courtesy), but at that point we can put up the hangon tag, and then we can go through the formal proposed-for-deletion or articles for deletion process. In fact, if that happens, I'll even set it up properly where you can plead your case, and then multiple people vote on whether or not to keep it. It's a more deliberate process, and not as subject to hasty decisions.

Again, I suggest that if you do this (and I do encourage you to try again so that you won't be left with a bad taste in your mouth), you will stand a better chance if you write a single article about the band, with a section about each member within the article. I know from past experience that the odds are better this way. Don't forget that there is already an article about another band from Canada called The Government, so if you do create a new article, make the title something like "The Government (U.S. band)" so there won't be a conflict. And please find some sort of articles or some independent evidence of the band's work that can be put into the article as references. That will really, really help.

As for those other bands that you mentioned and why they don't have articles — feel free to write the article(s). Include sources for other articles, review, chart positions, discography, anything at else that someone outside the band wrote. It makes a big, big difference.

And above all — don't harm your Mozart records or anything else in favor of Justin Timberlake. Instead, crush Justin Timberlake — not his albums, but him. Then all would be right in the world. (If I thought I could get away with a speedy-delete of any article having to do with that idiot, I'd give it a shot.)

Realkyhick 20:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Thend. I'm sorry you feel like Realkyhick was tough to deal with. Just to clear some things up, we don't document what's popular; we document things that are attributable. Often areas that are very spam-prone (unfortunately including bands) also want the topic to be notable. Note in particular that we forbid original research, so unless other people have documented knowledge elsewhere, it's not knowledge we can include here. If you have citations for sources that have featured the band, and especially if you have proof that they meet WP:BAND, the notability standard for musical acts, then drop me a line on my talk page and I'll help you figure out how to turn that into an article. Good luck, William Pietri 20:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)