Talk:Unemployment
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[edit] Dropped material
I dropped the material about cyclical unemployment being due to a temporary insufficiency of aggregate demand. The problem is that the phrase "cyclical unemployment" is an inadequate term compared to "deficient-demand unemployment." So-called cyclical unemployment can be high for a long time, as in the 1930s (at least in the U.S.) However, the term "cyclical unemployment" is very common and less awkward than "deficient-demand unemployment." Jdevine 19:06, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I dropped ", if we assume that true demand of work would not be matched by new vacancies" from the end of the debate on unemployment because its meaning was a bit unclear. Jdevine 19:10, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Suggestion
Apparently this page is pretty good. Some thought it would be better than what they would have done, and quicker too: http://www.colombialink.com/01_INDEX/index_finanzas_eng/unemployment.html Emmanuel, just a visitor 27/04/05
Let's have a graph here, showing the average US unemployment rate from as far back as is known through the current day.
The graph needs a caption to say it is the USA. Maurreen 08:02, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
done!! Jim 20:38, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)
It should be mentionned that some unemployement rates are contested. For instance Joseph E. Stiglitz, who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics, claims it's rather around 9% in the US. Helldjinn 15:27, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
you're talking about the measurement of the unemployment rate, right? I'm pretty sure that discussion is already in the existing entry, but I'll check. Jim 19:05, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
A critical note about this page, it is heavily biased towards the US. There are a few sidecomments about the situation in europe, though Europe has about 1.5 times as much inhabitants(260 versus 400 million). Not a word is mentioned about asia, though China is the biggest economic force in the world. And of course not a word about africa, though the unemployment problems there are quite complex and very important.
I wil also remove the snide remark towards France in the introduction."Obviously, different countries have different unemployment rates:for example, the current unemployment rate in France is 9.7%, significantly higher than in the U.S" First you state that comparison of the stats isn't possible without carefull scrutiny, and then you compare rates anyway. The sentence isn't productive in any way for understanding of unemployment, in fact the sentence itself states it is a useless sentence. I don't feel comfortable enough in the subject to change the article drastically, but I think it is really nessecary. 81.205.127.8 12:44, 7 May 2005 (UTC)}
What? No mention of international unemployment? Differences between ILO and BLS?
The following line, "Preliterate ("primitive") communities treat their members as parts of an extended family and thus do not allow them to be unemployed — in the effort to preserve the group" seems to constitute something of a non-sequitur. If we want to describe a particular kind of literacy, say that of asset accounting, then perhaps it is necessary to specify. If we want to see something defined within the perspective of a closed system or culture, however vague and aspirant to universalism, such as a brand of economic study, shouldn't it be prefaced as such? Otherwise, we need to define things from outside of these closed systems. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.222.56.36 (talk • contribs).
[edit] Internationalization
In the interest of geographical balance and also of sheer completeness, I'd like to mention two recent phenomenons revolving around the Argentine economic crisis: piqueteros forming "unemployed workers movements" and the recovered factory movement (worker-run co-operatives formed after businesses were abandoned by their owners, and workers effectively left jobless without severance compensation, upon bankruptcy). Argentina can also be seen as case study for high accute unemployment. I'm not sure how or where this can be integrated with this article, so that's why I'm asking here first. --Pablo D. Flores 11:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Unemployment Map
What is represented by the "grey" countries and regions on the "World unemployment in 2004" map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Unemploy2004.png)? From the way it looks at this point, it could mean that they have _less_ than 5% unemployment, which is absolutely not the case. If the map is not updated to add a better legend, I'm going to remove it from this article around 24 hours from now, as it misrepresents the data available, in its present form. --NightMonkey 22:38, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
- OK, removing it. Note that I'm not objecting to the presence of a world map per se, but in its current form, it only covers certain world regions, and is not on par with its purported coverage. --NightMonkey 07:56, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Be More Clear!
== Listen Up People ==
Unemployment is a relative term so it depends on how you define it before you can explain it! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.118.252.160 (talk • contribs).
There is a definition of unemployment that some economists have adopted (notably the late Australian economist Xiaokai Yang and members of his school) that is insightful, but which has not been widely used as yet by labor economists. The definition is: "Involuntary unemploymnent is the inability to participate in the division of labour." The concept of the division of labor is that used by Adam Smith. This definition suggests that the widespread unemployment in some developing economies may be due to shortages of capital, poor infrastrucure, and sometimes by curruption and red tape - anything that makes it hard to develop a firm. In the developing world unemployment is more likely be due to technological change, loss of market to foreign competition, or anything that causes a local breakdown of the division of labor.
Since it does not represent a consensus view this idea about the nature of unemployment cannot take center stage in a Wikipedia article. Yet it might be important enough to someone looking for an understanding of unemployment so that it might be mentioned. Any thoughts? Temple Bayliss 16:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] OECD, regulation and unemployment
This article, by one of Australia's most respected economics writers, refers to the OECD Employment Outlook 2006. According to the journalist, the OECD is moving back from its advocacy of labor market deregulation, saying that there's no impact on regulations such as minimum wage, and unemployment. I was hoping to learn more about it in the unemployment article... but twas not to be, and the OECD report is a fairly heavy reading for a non-economic type like me. Hopefully there's someone out there who can do something with this info... Thanks --Singkong2005 (t - c - WPID) 16:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Need for references, & POV-check
My edit of 6 July ({{unreferenced}} & {POV-check}} - citations/links needed for many of the claims made; & article should represent the various views, not support particular views.) was immediately reverted (fully referenced: please read the books in the reference list--if there is a sentence in question please indicate it).
There's more to referencing than a reading list - this article needs more references within in the text. Currently there are hardly any. We obviously can't expect the average reader to "read the books in the reference list" - they've come here for an encylopedia article, not a reading list. Even an inline reference that cites a book and a page number or chapter would be a vast improvement. --Singkong2005 talk 03:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
- there are plenty of excellent references to the article. All the books have indexes and tales of contents, so a user can quickly find further information without our giving out page numbers after every sentence. They can start with the good textbooks that are listed (George J Borjas; Ronald G. Ehrenberg; McConnell), or the good history titles (Keyssar, Jensen). Is there some POV statement that causes a problem?? then itentify it specifically and we can fix it. Rjensen 03:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
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- No one demanded page numbers after every sentence. However, at least one or more citation of some form per paragraph would certainly not be excessive. Note, from Wikipedia:Citing sources#Page numbers: When citing books and articles, provide page numbers when possible.
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- Besides that, additional links to websites are perhaps not essential, but would improve the usability of the article by the average reader who doesn't have the books at their fingertips. I would regard this as only sensible in my own areas of expertise (in engineering) and see no reason that economics articles should be any different, demanding that the reader must go to a university library in order to check the source of a statement.
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- That's not to say that web sources are superior. The ideal reference might be a reference to a book, including page number, followed by a link to a reliable online source.
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- I'll leave the POV thing for now - I don't have the time to go through it now, and I'd rather see the referencing improved before I have another look at whether it's POV/NPOV. --Singkong2005 talk 06:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
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- I weakend the statements on the effects of high welfare high unemployment scenarios because they were highly biased indicating a necessary disbenefit with high unemployment even if this is coupled with good social security. It is arguably better to redistribute wealth to a relatively large mass of unemployment thus reducing *maximum* levels of wealth but increasing median wealth than to have a small number of extremely impovirished unemployed. 152.83.176.156 06:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Unemployement in the United States
This article is at 39K and somewhat US-centric. I would recommend spawning Unemployment in the United States so more global material can be added here. -- Beland 22:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Graphic is very dated (2004). Can we update it? And use more distinctive colors? talk 9:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Other factors causing unemployment
Whilst I cannot comment on the stats in the US, in New Zealand our unemployment is affected by gender, age, race and location - rural unemployment, particularly around small towns that used to be occupied by one major employer that no longer operates - is very high. City unemployment is very low as there are both people and jobs. Likewise, those with Maori and Pacific Island ethnicity suffer higher unemployment than those of Eurpoean descent. 210.86.93.251 09:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)Xav
So you're saying that unemployment is caused by certain minorities? :S
I don't quite follow.
[edit] Bias from the first sentence
To write "In economics, one who is willing to work at a prevailing wage rate yet is unable to find a paying job is considered to be unemployed", in the first sentence, is already carrying a bias, which Keynes in his times built his theory on. Unemployment is a voluntary thing only for neo-classics economy — for most other people, it only means lack of money. And I don't think many people volunteer for that. So, that's for the "willing to work". Unemployment, in ordinary people's language, is when people need money, and can't find a job to get money to eat. It is not a question of "prevailing wage rate", as "wage rates" can change a lot. The first sentence of this article is an endorsement of neo-classic economics. Lapaz
- Note that employment is not a synonym with work. One can easily work for free, but one always becomes employed to get money. Lapaz
- PS. You don't believe me? What the heck are you doin' loosin' your time on Wikipedia? Lapaz
[edit] Race section
not sure why that race table has to be included in this article... what's the relevance? appears to me as a concealed attempt to infect the narrow-minded individual's opinion of minorities. Panda
