Talk:Union City, New Jersey
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is part of WikiProject New Jersey, an effort to create, expand, and improve New Jersey–related articles to Wikipedia feature-quality standard. |
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale. |
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. |
Contents |
[edit] Government
Alan, I appreciate the collaboration, and respect the articles and information therein you have provided, but there is no need for subheading on Federal or State representation. The need for subheadings arises only when the section is large enough that it warrants subdivision. The Government section is not that large, and why put a subheadiing, when it's the only one there, and when the passage before it so brief? All the information there can be summed up under "Government." Also, you removed the sources I provided. Please don't do that. Wikipedia wants its material to be sourced/referenced. Thanks. Nightscream 15:46, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Geography
I removed the passage at the end of this section that stated, Due to its location Union City resembles a small town with a lot of New York City influence. Most people live in old two or three family houses lining narrow one-way streets. First of all, in what way does "resemble" a small town? It is a small town. Second, why does 68.46.36.1, the anonymous author of this passage keep adding this assertion about housing, but without citing a single source? I cannot find a source for this assetion, either in the main body of the article where it is made, or in the Sources section. I'd try talking to him on his discussion page, but he doesn't have one. If continues to add this material, I will be forced to contact an administrator to have him blocked. Sorry. Nightscream 10:26, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
- This is just a thought - but the person might actually live in Union City and is probably speaking from personal experience. The comment about "resembling a small town" probably refers to the fact that (a) the county is very densely populated and is across from Manhattan, which is also densely populated and (b) the town is primarily residential. I don't think that a discussion of housing requires a reference; it's something that you can visually identify. I think you're getting a little too carried away. Darkcore 17:17, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your response, Darkcore. I'm glad someone decided to participate in this discussion. :-) First of all, I live in Union City, and I am speaking from personal experience. But none of this addresses the points I made. Again, what do population density, being located across from Manhattan, or the fact that it's residential, having anything to do with a "resemblance"? Or whether it’s small? These are non-sequiturs, and whether one makes them from the personal experience of living there doesn’t change this. Union City does not a "resemble" anything, as it is a small town. That is a question of fact. This "resemble" passage does not make any sense, and the meaning for it that you suggest does not correlate to it, and in any case, is completely subjective, and not even relevant to that section. Wikipedia is supposed to deal with sourced facts, not arbitrary and vague notions of what things “resemble.” Now to be generous, Wikipedia material can include quoted statements and opnions (as when, for example, an article on a movie quotes a movie critic when discussing its box office performance), but even then, it has to be from someone regarded as an authority on the subject, whose statement in some way reflects a known consensus or perception, and it has to be sourced. None of these criteria apply to this "resemble" quote, and indeed, the vandal who keeps insisting on inserting it does not have a registered user page, refuses to cite his/her sources, and refuses to respond to my requests for him/her to do so.
As for the housing bit, again, you do need a source. Yes, I suppose you could mention things easily and obviously identifiable, but again, we're dealing with subjectives, as I live in Union City, and have no knowledge that most people live on side streets. I myself, for example, live on one of the Avenues, as do many others. I have no problem conceding the possibility that this assertion about sidestreets is true, mind you, but I'm simply asking for a source, which is a Wikipedia rule.
Lastly, the passage also contains other material that is inappropriate. For example:
Bergenline Avenue is the city's main commercial strip. This is already covered by the passage that says, Until the 1880s, the principle business center of Union City was Palisade Avenue. An influential citizen named Henry Kohlmeier who lived there objected to the noise created by horse-drawn public coaches, which led to the route being transferred two blocks west to what is now Bergenline Avenue (formerly Lewis Street), which runs parallel to Palisade Avenue, and which remains the city’s main commercial thoroughfare. The street runs through not only the entire length of Union City from north to south, but also through Jersey City, West New York, Guttenberg and North Bergen, making it the main commercial strip for Northern Hudson County. This passage not only states that it's the city's main thoroughfare, but that of the county as well. Why mention it again?
This narrow and bustling commercial strip is a gateway to Latin America. What does this mean? That the area is mostly Hispanic? The entire city is mostly Hispanic, a point that is covered in other areas of the article, including the History section (which comes before the Commerce section), and the Demographics section. Why specify this point again, and only for Bergenline? It's redundant.
The dominant language is Spanish. Again, this is redundant. The article already mentions the Latino population, and the section on Demographics, which is more pertinent to this point than the one on Commerce, mentions the ethnicity and language of the population.
There are many stores and restaurants representing various Hispanic countries such as Cuba, Colombia, and Peru. It goes without saying that large commercial strips have stores and restaurants, and since the article has already established by now that the population is comprised of Latino immigrants from different countries, it is redundant to mention this.
Moreover 99 cent, electronic, money order, and clothing stores can be found in Bergenline Avenue. So now we're mentioning what type of stores are found in commercial strips??? Is it really necessary to mention that commercial thoroughfares like Bergenline have 99 cent stores, money order outlets and clothing stores? Again, this goes without saying. All commercial shopping districts in all cities, after all, have this. It doesn't need mentioning.
In addition, the proper passage on Bergenline is followed by one mentioning how Summit Avenue is also a commercial strip, though less so. By inserting another redundant passage on Bergenline after the one on Summit, as the vandal insists on doing, he/she is sloppily placing it outside of the proper editorial order of the section. Doesn't this person have enough of a basic understanding of the organizational structure of writing to see this?
The fact that vandal's contributions are poorly written, and not in keeping with the standards and stated rules of WP are why I keep deleting them. The fact that he/she keeps reverting the article, rather than registering or even engaging in a discussion on the matter, is inexcusable. WP needs, in addition to relevant, well-organized material, information that is sourced. Personal experience of someone who lives there is not considered a sufficient substitute. If it were, then by the same token, one could argue that you should just arbitrarily accept everything I have stated here, since I do live in the town, and the vandal has made no mention of this. Obviously, however, this is not acceptable, which is why you'll notice all the sources I worked hard to include, both in the body of the article, and in the section on Sources I created at the bottom of it. I'm not trying to be difficult or anything, but merely state my viewpoint using rational arguments. In my opinion, that's not getting carried away. That's just showing a proper respect, not only for the proper standards of writing an encyclopedia in general, but for the rules of Wikipedia in particular. Nightscream 21:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
- Now that you've elaborated, I agree. I haven't been watching this article closely, but I will be monitoring the anonymous editor's changes from now on. Darkcore 20:48, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, I appreciate it. Inmytown has now taken to loading the article with lots of redundant, generic pics of Union City. I removed three of the four he/she inserted, and left one of them in, partially as a compromise, and even wrote a more descriptive caption for it, and tried to politely address the matter to him/her, stating my reasoning on his Talk Page. His response? He re-inserted two of the deleted pics again, and of course, did not respond to me, either on his Talk Page, my Talk Page, or here. I removed them again.
Also, about placing the two Bergenline Ave. pics (the "circa 1900" and "circa 2000" ones), at the right margin again: I don't really mind them being on the right instead of the left, but I really wanted to place them side by side, partially so that they can form a "Then and Now" diptych, and partially so that they don't push the pics below them further and further down past the relevant sections with which they line up, but I only know to do side-by-side pics on the left margin. Do you know how to do this on the right margin? Thanks, and Happy New Year, Darkcore. :-) Nightscream 10:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
I apologize Nightscream. First off I deleted the picture you put because it was not on Bergenline. I replaced with a picture that was actually taken on Bergenline Avenue. Sorry for the late response I am still new to wikipedia as a member.
If you're referring to the one on the right in the "Then and Now" diptych, it is most certainly on Bergenline. Specifically, it's at the intersection of 32nd ST. and Bergenline, just as it says in the caption, as the 1900 one nearly is (it's a bit north of that intersection, facing south instead of west, but's fairly close for a comparison of the two eras). And again, if you would like to take one of that intersection that's of a better quality, so that perhaps we can replace it, I encourage you to do so. I'm not sure why you "regret" apologizing, as your actions go far beyond that one photograph, but I'm willing to put it aside if you are, since you're new to WP. Let's try and work on this together, okay? :-)
As far as the documentation of Union City having the highest Hispanic percentage in the state, you did not cite a source for this. All you did was link to another Wikipedia page that indicates lists five cities with populations between 25,000 and 100,000 people, and which indicates that U.C. has the highest Hispanic percentage of those five. Not in the entire state. If you insist on re-inserting that assertion in the article, then it should be documented. Otherwise, it should be deleted.
As a suggestion, you can sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~) at the end of your post. :-) Nightscream 14:25, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Union City having highest Hispanic population by percentage
I did try to see if I could get directly from the Census Bureau's web site listing the percentage of Hispanic population in new Jersey's 566 municipalities (preferably in order), but I was unable to do so, and which would have provided ironclad documentation . However, the link that was inserted into the article to back up the claim, List of U.S. cities with Hispanic majority populations#New Jersey, does not just list a few arbitrarily randomly selected cities in New Jersey. As stated in the descriptive portion of the page, it lists every single municipality in the state that has a majority Hispanic population, using data provide based on the United States 2000 Census from the United States Census Bureau. All other municipalities in the entire state of New Jersey are under 50% Hispanic. Of all of the municipalities listed on that page, Union City at 82.3% is the highest in New Jersey. I went to the Census Bureau web site and spot checked and confirmed these numbers within a reasonable range. I think it's hard to argue that there is some other municipality that exceeds Union City's 82.3%. If you can think of one that is not on the list, please let us do the research on the Census site. If it's greater than 82.3% then it's the highest. But other than having documneted justification to debunk the claim, I think it should stand as is. Alansohn 14:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Most densely populated city
Union City is considered the most densely populated city in the country. Although Guttenberg, NJ and Manhattan are more densely populated they are a town and borough respectively. I wasn't sure if this was mentioning because a) it seems obvious and b) the statement does not imply anything that isn't stated. If you want to add something about it though, go ahead. Also I don't know if it should be put in the beginning or under trivia.
[edit] Urban Enterprise Zone
The fact that there is no sales tax on clothing in Union City is not a result of its being an urban enterprise zone as the article implies. There is no sales tax on clothing anywhere in New Jersey. I am removing the statement for now, but if somebody wants to put in a more accurate statement on this point, go ahead. Mjj237 14:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Suburb of NYC?
Why does the article state that Union City, NJ is a suburb of New York City in the introduction?
[edit] Park Theater
If Veronica's Veil was first performed in 1914, and The Park Performing Arts Center's Passion Play opened in 1915, how can the Park Theater's play be the longest-running in America. Veronica's Veil is still performed to this day. This claim being utilized by the Park Theater's Version is just taking advantage of the fact that "the Veil is no longer in Union City.
