Talk:Velar approximant
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[edit] English Allophone
English really doesn't have this at all? I'm fairly sure I have it as an allophone of /r/ after /k/ and /g/, as in crown and grow, for example. I may be mishearing it, though. Any other opinions? WurdBendur 04:11, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
- English /r/, at least in my dialect, is labiovelarized [ɹʷ] in syllable-onset position, so it does have a velar component. Maybe that's what you're hearing? kwami 05:25, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
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- That may be, though someone else I've asked attests to having [M\_?\_P] for /r/ at onset. I suppose that doesn't mean much. WurdBendur 06:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
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- I don't know what those symbols mean. kwami
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- Sorry, I'm using X-SAMPA. That's a pharyngealized labiodentalized velar approximant.
- Oops, that's Z- SAMPA [1]. That's probably why you don't recognize it. WurdBendur 07:31, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] French?
That's hard to believe. I've been to France for months and have never heard that. French /k/ and /g/ are palatal or maybe palatovelar. When I turn French /g/ into an approximant, the result is basically [j] – which I haven't heard either. And what is the tie bar doing in the example? Is it supposed to be the IPA stress mark (a sort of apostrophe)?
BTW, what about Polish ł? Is this really [w] all over the country?
No, it can be a velarized dental lateral approximant (IPA [ɫ]) as well. But this pronunciation is limited to older people from eastern Poland nowadays
David Marjanović | david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at | 00:09 CEST | 2006/4/7
I'm a native speaker of French, and I have heard it, lots of times. It's even rendered "ta yeule" on the 'net, but I agree [j] is probably more precise, or maybe a velarised [j], [jˠ], just like the French stops are actually slightly affricated [ts], [dz], [kx], [gɣ]. I won't remove it until we come to a consensus though.
Well, I live in Quebec, so I dunno how widespread approximation/affrication is. Maybe the user also comes from Quebec?
And I seriously doubt French internal stops are palatals. Wouldn't it sound more like [c], [ɟ] then?
Valkari 03:50, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Spanish?
This webpage indicates that the Velar approximant is used in Spanish whenever the letter /g/ is not before a nasal or starting a word...I am a native Spanish-speaker and even if I have heard this phoneme used, I wouldnt consider it a rule...The phrase "el gato" is commonly pronounced (at least in Venezuela) [el-'ga.to] and not [el-ˈɰa.to].
