Talk:White Latin American

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Contents 1 White Hispanic or White Latin American 2 What about Chile 3 Pictures 4 Why did it take this long to address the notion of White Hispanics?

[edit] White Hispanic or White Latin American

This article has changed names from White Hispanic to White Latin American...while I feel the latter is used correctly, I feel most people use the term Hispanic when refering to 'the people that come from Latin America'. The phrase Non-Hispanic White is used for White people without ancestors from Spain or Latin America,...I think we should change it back to White Hispanic...it is correct to say they are Latin American, but for most people...it's Hispanic. Why wouldn't they put Non-Latin American White? I think many people have a hard time accepting that there are indeed 'White Hispanics' and by using 'White Latin American', it further alienates the term white from Hispanic...I'd like to hear other opinions. Thank You! --Cali567 20:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I started a new White Hispanic article. It's only a stub at this point. I still have some misgivings on whether it is necessary, though. SamEV 03:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm wondering why we have to have two groups under different names for the same ethnic groupings? Is one for Americans (Hispanic) and one for the rest of the World (Latin Americans)? I agree with the info. on the White Hispanic article, I'm just wondering. Thank You. --Cali567 21:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Because they're not the same ethnic group, just as Asian American is not synonymous with Asian, for example. One descends from the other, but that doesn't make them identical. SamEV 00:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.142.24.192 (talk) 06:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Argentinian Jews and Irish-Argentinians or Italian-Argentinians are Hispanic cause they speak Spanish, now Brazilians who are Portuguese, Italian, German, Spaniard, Slav, Lithuanian, Hungarian, Dutch, Scandinavian, Jew or Arab speak Portuguese, a neo-latin romance language.

Italian-Americans and French-Canadians are White, American and Latin.

Well, I can see where you're coming from..but I don't think in reality they are that different. As a person from such a country I am either Hispanic or Latin American. Most of the English readers here are from the U.S. In the U.S. we don't differentiate between these two very much. In a way I think people will get confused. There will never be a complete distinction...it just won't happen. They are apart of the same group. It's no different from being called Hispanic when you may be a Mestizo...then what about this: You may have the culture, but what if you don't speak Spanish? --Cali567 00:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I don't make the rules. There is an official distinction made by the U.S. government, which doesn't negate the Hispanicness of people in Latin America. In fact, it's b/c of their Hispanic heritage that the term is used in the U.S. for those of Latin American ancestry. To try to lump a third generation American from New York in the same basket as a rural Colombian just won't go. They're citizens of different countries, have different cultures, different histories, different attitudes, may speak different languages (third gen often don't even speak Spanish), etc. Hence different terms are needed. SamEV 03:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

To be quite honest, I mostly meant that we are not different racially...culture is something very different, I'm sure you know. I think it should at least be clarified on each of the pages that they are the same group...just different 'backgrounds'...by the way, I know you don't make the rules. I think this could have been avoided if you just created another page for White Latin Americans, instead of changing White Hispanic into it. I will say both pages sem to be correct anyway. Best of luck --Cali567 01:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Different backgrounds is enough. I'll try again: there are separate articles for, say, Italian people and for Italian Americans, even though they're the same racially (originally anyway). Their 'backgrounds' merit that separate treatment. SamEV 03:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Hispanic is a person who speaks Spanish or has full/partial Spanish blood. Latin is a person who has full or partial Latin blood or speaks a Romance language, such as (but not limited to) Romanian, Italian, Portuguese, French and Spanish. Count Dracula was Latin!

Check out these articles, please: Hispanic, Latino and Latin peoples. SamEV 09:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What about Chile

Add Chile to the list considering that there are a high population of English, German and Galician Spanish Chileans.

Considering that Chile officially has no white people but instead has 'white and mestizo' people - due to their being combined as one census category - maybe Chile doesn't belong at all! But what the heck... SamEV 11:02, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Which is odd considering that Chile has a high proportion of German Chileans in the South. Pretty much everyone in Southern Chile has a German, Irish, or English last name. Have you ever seen the movie Machuca? The whole movie is about the white/amerindian split in Chilean society.

Spanish and Italians, too. You answered my next question, which was, is racism so bad in Chile that they have to seek unity by this pretense? I think that just sweeps the racial problems under the rug.

No, haven't seen the movie. I'll try to, then. SamEV 02:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Ofcourse. Instead of addressing the differences in race and understanding it, the government seeks to unite Chileans by using a sort of noble lie. Not to say that there arent a significant number of mixed Chileans. There are. But that there is also a HIGHER significant number of white Chileans too.

Let me say that the figures I'm used to seeing were 66% mestizo, 25% white, 5% indian. So, while certainly in the minority by these numbers, that's still 4 million white Chileans. That's about the same as the population of Ireland, last time I checked. (I'll check again ... yep, 4 million it is). And again, honesty is the best policy, so yes, Chile should address race with genuine openness, not with tricks. SamEV 06:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

It seems a bit odd that you'd change the picture of Fox for Ricky Martin...after all of that talk about chile being so Germanic, you'll switch a part German ex-President (Fox was Fuchs before they changed it) for a Puerto Rican singer whom many in America think of as "brown"....? C.Kent87 02:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Ricky Martin is white. Americans cannot even tell the difference between a southern european and an amerindian. I would NEVER use thier concept of "white" because their view is tainted by the "one drop rule". They assume that white only means blonde haired and blue eyed or any Anglo/Nordic derived equivalent. They dont even recognize the Mediterranean sub-culture as a "white", even though it is. Whats ironic is that many Americans claim to have Native blood but still consider themselves white and then they turn around and claim that certain Southern Europeans are not white along with many Creole Latin Americans like Ricky Martin. What they fail to take note of is that many creoles like Alexis Bledel, Carlos Ponce and Mexican Director Guillermo Del Toro are probably more "white" then they are by thier own flawed standards.

This site should feature white Latin Americans of all stripes from fair, medium to olive skin, from Alexis Bledel to Andy Garcia to Gael Garcia Bernal. We shouldnt have to incorrectly narrow the true definition of white to an American standard. White Hispanic is not an oxy moron.

Good points, you make. SamEV 06:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I think 'White Hispanic' is left open for interpretation, so don't shoot me down for using an 'American' viewpoint...fist of all, I'm a "White Latin American", and I'm sorry if his brown skin causes me to think he's brown...which he is. I don't think Americans are dumb enough to confuse an Amerindian with a Mediterranean, though there may be some (but that's another subject). Whites, I know, aren't limited to Nordic types...and don't label Americans with anything because everywhere you go there are preconceptions...not only in America. I will however agree with the "Whites having Amerindian blood" thing.....I think this is something that we have to work on, because to get a huge lecture about Latino 'whiteness' when asking a simple question...is a little much. A chip on ones shoulder is never good. C.Kent87 04:22, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I still dont see how you see Ricky Martin as "brown". He is a bit tan, but his features are very European. He is olive skinned.

Hi, I actually changed the picture because even though i thought the Mexican president was a good photo, i thought id change the subject alittle and changed it to the R-Martin one..even though it may not be the best photo of him its good enough and if he is what some americans think of as being brown ,then they just have to compare him with some Spanish bullfighters and so on....i shouldnt need to explain.but there you go. I would use other or more pics of other people that repsresent the subject but its hard to get pics that are free to use too.

[edit] Why did it take this long to address the notion of White Hispanics?

It seems that lately there has been a upsurge in addressing the concerns of White Latinos. For years now our darker skinned brothers have been in the limelight taking full charge of the labels given to us by the Americans; Hispanic/Latino. Yet, as of late the White Hispanic has likewise been vocal about the diversity in the Latino culture constantly reminding the Americans that Latino is not a race, but a culture composing of different races. Maybe its because TRUE Hispanic culture is seeping into the United States with the surge in the Hispanic population. I mean in our mother countries, no one considers themselves racially latino. They use the same standards the rest of the world uses: black, white, amerindian, mestizo, mullato, asian. Is it me, or is logic catching up with the Americans and their attempts to group a diverse culture into one label for the sake of cementing a voting bloc? And also how in the world did this concept seem to just escape the attention of the Americans when we constitute for ONE THIRD of the continent! Lets discuss this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.254.205.3 (talk) 04:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

The truth is definitely catching up: Latinos are diverse! No need to tip toe around it in pursuit of unity.

I'd say this diversity was easy to miss for most Americans due to: the fact that most Latin Americans and Latinos are non-white; the fact that most white Latin Americans and Latinos are of the Mediterranean types, whose whiteness has been challenged by the dominant nordicist outlook in the US; and lastly by Americans' widespread acceptance of the one drop theory, as the poster above said, wherein it doesn't matter what a person's actual race is, only whether they have a drop of non-whiteness. But that theory is pretty much dead or dying fast. SamEV 06:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

The thing that is stranger is that there isnt this unity within our own mother countries like there is in the US. I believe its because in our own countries the Creole population usually has control of the media and politics so they determine the outcome of their demographics and dont have to tip toe around Political Correctness like we do in the United States. So in Latin American countries people are not going around saying that they're racially latino but address themselves as Afro-Latino, Mestizo, and Blanco. Americans in the US have to accept the fact that we're as diverse as they are and that Anglos arent the only whites in the country. I think it makes them a bit uncomfortable knowing that a white person can be into such things as mambo, salsa, and a festive culture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.248.172.10 (talk) 18:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

Ha! A sense of humor about this stuff, good for you.

Good description about the situation in Latin America, too. At this stage, they're decades behind the US in terms of respect for all people, of all races. Hope it doesn't take half a century to catch up. SamEV 00:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)