Talk:Yorkshire County Cricket Club

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Contents 1 County Boundaries 2 Yorkshire Phoenix 3 Article Revamp 4 Abbeydale Park 5 Removed notable players section 5.1 Notable players 6 Honours 7 Ainsty

[edit] County Boundaries

re: the section in the article...

"Yorkshire CCC has repeatedly stated that it represents the true, traditional county of Yorkshire, that is, the three ridings and the city of York."

There is an area to the west of York that included the parish I was born in, Acomb, called 'The Ainsty', connected to and administered from the city of York and not part of the West Riding. Therefore it's my belief the above comment should read...

"Yorkshire CCC has repeatedly stated that it represents the true, traditional county of Yorkshire, that is, the three ridings and the city and Ainsty of York."

I made this change in one of my earlier edits. 194.203.110.127 11:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

This is an international encyclopaedia and it needs to be made clear that the West Riding has no meaning except in tradition. If 194 etc disagrees he should register so we can have a proper discussion. BlueValour 2007-04-09 16:53 UTC

West Riding has a very important and current meaning as any internet search will confirm. There has never been a Yorkshire County Council so to argue that the absence of a council means a county doesn't exist is quite absurd. 194.203.110.127 11:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yorkshire Phoenix

I added a bit to try to explain the Yorkshire Phoenix redirect today. I'm not overly happy with my explanation so if anyone could rewrite it that'd be grand. 194.203.110.127 11:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Revamp

I have done a major revamp of the article. Pinning dressing room disharmony on Boycott has been removed pending a citation and I have detached the 'Yorkshire born' rule from the lack of ethnic players, again due to lack of citation.

Certain areas require developing:

• Details of the Headingley ground ownership before Yorkshire bought it.
• An account of the transition from a Committee structure to a Board of Directors.
• A commentary on the 1 day and Twenty20 sides.
• Fuller details of 1975-2000.

BlueValour 27 May 2006 http://www.terriers.me.uk/

[edit] Abbeydale Park

I have reverted the edit suggesting that Yorkshire have played county cricket outside the traditional boundaries. Cricket had been played at Abbeydale Park, in the village of Dore, south-west Sheffield but only since 1946.[1] Dore, though once part of Derbyshire became a constituent of Sheffield, and hence the West Riding (did I really say South Riding in an edit summary :-( ) in 1934 - see Totley#History and geography. TerriersFan 04:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what you are requiring here. You agree here that Dore is not within the traditional, pre-1889, borders of Yorkshire. So this shows that Yorkshire have played home matches outside the traditional boundaries. 1934 border changes are no more accepted by the ABC than the 1974 ones. I'm not sure why Yorkshire did this. Possibly they didn't know. Possibly they didn't care. Morwen - Talk 12:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've added a couple of links that demonstrate this. Morwen - Talk 13:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed notable players section

I've pasted this section into the talk page so it can be discussed rather than the article reverted, without fear of being lost. Yorkshire Phoenix 09:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

This list is heavily POV. Dickie Bird, for example, may have been a well-known umpire but he was hardly a notable player. There was nothing especially notable about some of the captains either: such as Billy Sutcliffe, Vic Wilson or Ronnie Burnet. There should in any case be a separate section for captains as there is for a few other counties. Even some who made occasional Test appearances (e.g., Padgett) were hardly notable unless we include every single Test player in such lists.

The main thing wrong with it, as with all these "notable players" lists, is that it totally ignores numerous players from the distant past who really were notable. Where are Lockwood, Ulyett, Wainwright, Peate, Brown, Tunnicliffe, Peel, Jackson (especially), Bates, Bevan (a recent one and arguably our best overseas player), Bowes (another especially), Denton, Haigh, Holmes, Kilner, Mitchell, Wardle (also especially), Watson, Rockley Wilson and no doubt a few more?

Furthermore, although Jason Gillespie and Stephen Fleming are certainly notable Test cricketers, have they done anything notable for Yorkshire?

The way to indicate notable players is to specify an actual achievement, using the achievement as the basis for another list if necessary. The captains list accounts for several. Many of the old-time players will easily go into an appearances list. Some could qualify for lists re their batting, bowling and wicket-keeping records.

As soon as you start saying "notable" you are in POV territory, which is against Wikipedia policy and leaves you wide open to criticism re who you have included and who you have excluded. I would drop this list and work the better-known players into the article via their actual achievements. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 11:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree, but felt that if we didn't preserve the section here on the talk page someone may have reverted it's removal. This is the only CCC article I've looked at (as a Yorkshireman I have not interest in any other!) but judging by rugby and football club articles "notable players" are indeed listed according to their achievements, in a "records" section, for example, rather than a POV list like this. Yorkshire Phoenix 11:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable players

See also: List of Yorkshire CCC players

England Bob Appleyard Jimmy Binks Dickie Bird Geoff Boycott Ronnie Burnet Brian Close Tom Emmett Darren Gough John Hampshire

Lord Hawke George Herbert Hirst Matthew Hoggard Sir Leonard Hutton Ray Illingworth Maurice Leyland Chris Old Doug Padgett Wilfred Rhodes

Brian Sellers Billy Sutcliffe Herbert Sutcliffe Fred Trueman Michael Vaughan Hedley Verity Vic Wilson Norman Yardley

Australia Jason Gillespie Darren Lehmann India Sachin Tendulkar New Zealand Stephen Fleming

I have reverted the deletion of notable players. These list are normal in articles on sporting clubs. They are always POV but we should live with that. If you feel that the list is wrong (I have taken Bird out and put Jackson and Peel in), please feel free to edit it. TerriersFan 16:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Honours

Please leave this section near the bottom of the article. It is a reference section and should be below descriptive text. TerriersFan 02:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ainsty

I have removed this. The background is given here. In 1888 the traditional boundaries of Yorkshire were intact so we can take Ainsty to be part of the West Riding. TerriersFan 02:13, 30 October 2006 (UTC)