Notandaspjall:Olve

Úr Wikipediu, frjálsa alfræðiritinu

[breyta] Redirects

All those redirects that I deleted are unuseful. Nobody who understands Icelandic would think of looking up i.e „Gyðinganna“ to find the article Gyðingar. It is enough to use the nominative, singular and plural, without the article. By doing this your way, we would have the words „Gyðingur“ and „Júði“ in all four cases, singular and plural, with and without the definite article or total 32 different forms, all emerging as articles redirected to Gyðingar. Please don't do that. Best regards, Moi.

But then again, anybody knowing Icelandic might make a link from a word in the text — a word which quite often would be in genitive or dative — as you saw in the examples I gave. And before you dismiss me completely as someone who doesn't understand the first thing about Icelandic, let me remind you that the total number of forms of one Icelandic noun rarely gets up to 32. Thus, e.g., the word “Júði” has only one oblique form (AGD) in undetermined singular... Please read what I wrote to you previously another time, and you will see thjat my point was not what someone might search on, but what words might be linked from in the articles. As I am sure you understand, these are two totally different issues... -- Olve 7. júlí 2005 02:05 (UTC)

What's wrong with linking like we have always done ([[Hestur|Hestana]])? I think it's actually more time consuming to spend time making redirects in all forms than just linking like this. --Stefán Vignir Skarphéðinsson 7. júlí 2005 02:13 (UTC)

That is the correct way to do things. What is wrong on the other hand is to create a new article with the name Hestana containing only #REDIRECT Hestur. And then another one called Hest, redirected to Hestur. And so on. This is what Olve did. He created one article for each of Gyðing, Gyðingi, Gyðinga, Gyðingum, Gyðingunum, Gyðinganna, Gyðingarnir, all of them redirected to Gyðingar. I deleted those articles, see Eyðingaskrá. What you should have done instead was the same as Stebbiv is showing. From within your article (when needed) you make links like [[Gyðingar|Gyðing]], [[Gyðingar|Gyðingi]], [[Gyðingar|Gyðinga]] and so on. With best regards, --Moi 7. júlí 2005 03:02 (UTC)

I agree with Moi and Stebbiv, we should use redirects for phrases that people would be likely to put in the search bar, that includes the singular and plural nominative case. We have always done the article links as demonstrated above and I haven't witnessed any dissatisfaction with that policy. In my mind it is always best to keep redirecting to a bare minimum and if someone happens to make a link like [[hestana]] they are more likely to change it into a direct link if they see that their version creates a red link. --Bjarki Sigursveinsson 7. júlí 2005 11:58 (UTC)

OK — while taking exception to Moi’s tone, I see that there seems to be a concensus on this particular Wikipedia that redirects are avoided. Fair enough. -- Olve 15. júlí 2005 kl. 22:30 (UTC)

Not at all, we just like to avoid them in the cases cited above, we're quite liberally sprinkle them around in the cases of synonyms, commons spelling errors and etc. —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 16. júlí 2005 kl. 01:03 (UTC)

Moi wrote «Nobody who understands Icelandic would think of looking up i.e „Gyðinganna“». But you must realize that you will get visitors that don't speak Icelandic here. People that are learning Icelandic will most probably use is.wiki, and it would be an advantage to have redirects to articles from wrong cases. If I, which understand some Icelandic but never have learnt the grammatics properly, would search after «Jews» in Icelandic I most probably would search for «Gyðing». And when I then get the result «Engin síða með þennan titil er til» I just accept that this is a small wikipedia and that I have to search for this at another place. --KRISTAGA^α-ω 23. ágúst 2005 kl. 21:46 (UTC)

Still, the number of forms for certains words will be quite excessive, as in some cases there are specific forms for all four cases, singular and plural, with and without the definite article, not speaking of adverbs, verbs and compounds, and synonyms, which can also be numerous. Granted, in most words the word forms of nouns are not 4x2x2 in number, as some forms are identical, but still, taking this policy to the letter would lead to an excessive number of redirects. Also, in any language you'd look up the base form (nominative singular) for all words where this is applicable, whether you're a student or a native speaker. There are languages (e.g. russian) with more cases than Icelandic. I don't know how this has been handled there. Would be interesting if someone knew that. However, you bring up a very interesting subject: the use of wikipedias for language learning. This is something to think about and take into account, even if, at present, we're mostly thinking about issues like e.g. what the word for "jackline" is in Icelandic... :-)) --Akigka 23. ágúst 2005 kl. 21:59 (UTC)

Also, to take an example from another Wikipedia, on en there is no article called en:Under the bridge, but there is an article called en:Under the Bridge as in this is a title and in english, titles always have capitals in all words other than... um... I don't know what smáorð are called in english, but you know, those words that aren't verbs, nouns or adjectives :p In my opinion, if the name is incorrect, not an alternatvie, just incorrect, there should not be an articled with that name... --Sterio

Just found out that the word for "jackline" is borðreipi, which is excellent :). There are many redirects to make for Icelandic. Take for example a word like rannsóknarstofa (laboratory or research institute) which also come in the varieties rannsóknastofa and tilraunastofa and whatnot. All of these synonyms have their 4 cases, sg and pl and with an affixed article for all of these :-| I've made attempts at creating spelling dictionaries for Icelandic (aspell and ispell) and found out that the number of forms of seemingly simple words can go on seemingly forever. I really love the idea of wikipedia as a language learning tool though. I believe I use it that way myself, from time to time. And it would be a real help to a small wikipedia like ours if students of Icelandic would contribute, if they feel confident, especially if the articles would get corrected by someone like Moi :). --Akigka 23. ágúst 2005 kl. 22:35 (UTC)