Talk:Mormonism
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[edit] Different movements within Mormonism
I just did a large edit on this article. Among other things, I removed the sentence: "Within the church, there are different movements that arose after questions of succession."
While it is quite true that there are other churches within Mormonism, the article seems to be specifically about the largest movement of Mormonism, namely, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. For example, the beliefs section says that Mormons don't drink coffee or alcohol, and that only faithful Mormons can go in their temples. Both of these beliefs do not apply to all other movements.
The answer would seem to be a completely new article about Mormonism as a whole, with this article being renamed The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
However, since this is a simplified Wikipedia, I don't know if that is even necessary. Especially when you consider that over 95% of the followers of Mormonism are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
-- Unsigned comment above by User:128.187.0.165
- Yes, it is true that this is the Simple English Wikipedia. It might also be true, that over 95% of "Mormons" are within the "Church you mention. My personal opinion of SE Wikipedia is that the simple refers to the language used, not to the facts stated. I would therefore propse that the fact, that some Mormons believe different things, and have (possibly) split from the "Mainstream" church be re-added to the article. Someone who knows better than me (I am not Mormon, and generally know very little about the Faiths of America) might even be able to point out what the differences in the beliefs are. Wikipedia is not about saying this is right, and that is wrong. Wikipedia is about cultural diversity. This means to at least say what the options are. -- Eptalon 22:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- I added a section about different non-LDS Mormons, please extend as you see fit. -- Eptalon 22:30, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cult
We should get that word out of this article. zephyr2k 23:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
- I fixed the cult part. zephyr2k 02:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- Different sources give different views. We should stick to the view by EN as it depicts how its adherents, Christians and other people view it.-- Tdxiang 02:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
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- yes, but as with the rule in EN, you cannot remove information that comes from reliable sources, but you can add to it. zephyr2k 02:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV
I tagged the article with {NPOV} as recent edits certainly lean away from from being neutral. I also removed a statement about Smith teaching polygamy as while he believed in it, there is nothing supporting polygamy being taught in LDS until the 1850's (years after Smith death). Also as this is a 170+ year old religion with more than 10 million members world wide and is the 4th largest religious group in the United States, I have to question defining it as a cult. Sect would be pushing it, but certainly not a cult.-- Creol 23:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
- 'Sect or Cult imo are not defined about how many members there are, but rather with their teachings. For each of the following, ask yourself, if you see it as a sect or a cult: en:Osho-Rajneesh movement,en:Scientology, en:Branch Davidian,en:Raëlism,en:Opus Dei
- Also look at it another way, the Protestants split from the Catholics, which in turn split from the Christian orthodox Church. Therefore, Catholics and Protestants are Sects, or Cults?
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- Of those listed, I would say religion, cult, sect-turned-cult, cult, sect. Cult by definition is "outside the mainstream". Mormonism is practically the standard in Utah, and mainstream in Idaho (approx 20-25% of the state is mormon). This would be akin to England in the 17th-18th century with Protestant christianity.
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- While not mainstream worldwide, It is mainstream in a relatively large geographical area. World wide its members combine for a greater population than countries such as Greece or Cuba (CIA World book list would place it between 64th and 71st in population by country). Would a national religion of one of those countries be counted as a cult and more importantly would it be an unbaised worldview to label it as such?
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- Sect, as i said, would be a stretch as while it does meet the criteria as off-shoot of a religion, it doesnt meet the "small group of people" designator which is most often used to define a sect. Of the three, Mormonism is as valid a choice to use "Religion" as Protestant is, though a 4th option may be the most neutral of choices which most people could agree on: "Religion Group"
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- And as I was typing when that last part entered: Sect, sect. (turned Religion over time) :) -- Creol 22:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] This article is not negative
I do not think that this article is negative in the least bit. It is a very truthfull article. The reason why I made the edits that you call negative is because this was portraying Mormonism as being a regular, orthodox christian group when its really not. Amost all of the mormon teaching go against the bible. So why should I have let it be if the article had false info.--Sir James Paul 01:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- The changes you have made show a strong Christian bias on this article as well as many of the others you have edited. Your attempt to remove what you feel is false information included adding false information of your own. As to the article being negative, what are you talking about?? The only usage of the word negative is in your edits. -- Creol 01:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry if you are offended but what I wrote is all truthful. If you have the problem with the truth about mormonism don't red the article. I know more than you on the subject--Sir James Paul 02:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- Dear Sir, although you may know more, your edits potray it as being nagative. Try to be neutral, okay? Don't forget that EVERYBODY (well... almost) reads this.-- Tdxiang 02:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Let us make this neutral:
Mormonism is a term used to describe religious, ideological, and cultural aspects of the various Latter Day Saint churches. The term Mormonism comes from the Book of Mormon a sacred text Joseph Smith, Jr. said he translated from golden plates in 1829. In 1830 Smith founded the Church of Christ, and the faithful were known amongst themselves as Latter Day Saints. Outside the church they were called Mormons. After his death, the majority of Smith's followers were led by Brigham Young to the Salt Lake Valley in the current state of Utah.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is the body that was led by Young, has grown to be a worldwide organization, which makes the term Mormonism reflect the beliefs and practices of this group more so than smaller denominations who still adhere to a belief in the sacred nature of the Book of Mormon. However, other demographic groups embrace or accept the term Mormonism, including the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, other Mormon fundamentalist organizations, Reform Mormonism, and cultural Mormons.
Adherents view Mormonism as a form of Christianity, although not part of the traditional Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant traditions. Because of differences in points of doctrine and practice, however, some traditional Christians disagree. See Mormonism and Christianity. The faith has been described at various times and in various contexts as "a sect, a mystery cult, a new religion, a church, a people, a nation, or an American subculture" Template:Harv.
Most adherents of Mormonism may be respectfully called Latter Day Saints (or the hyphenated Latter-day Saints in reference to the largest denomination).Template:Citation-needed Other generally acceptable terms include LDS, Saints, and Mormons. A minority of adherents object to the terms Mormon and Mormonism, since these are terms coined by outsiders to label members of the Church. This is from EN. View it.-- Tdxiang 02:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] I made the article far less negative
I changed the parts that I think you guys would think of as negative. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.--Sir James Paul 02:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone think it is sill negative? If so please tell me and I will fix it. Thanks and god bless.--Sir James Paul 21:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Different movements
Hello again, it seems that after Joseph Smith died, there was a conflict on who would succeed him. It looks like Brigham Young did finally succeed him. What resulted from this is a variety of groups, which centered on the questionJoe Spmith a prophet (yes/no/perhaps), BY a prophet, plural marriage (yes/no/perhaps), etc. Would it be possible to point out the bigger divisions in here, and their respective groups? -- Eptalon 22:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC) I deleted this part because it did not use simple english. "Different Groups beliefs Some people who call themselves Mormons are not part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. These people have made other Mormon churches. Some of their beliefs are different.
When Brigham Young became the second president of the church after Joseph Smith was killed, some people did not think he was the rightful president. When Brigham Young lead most of the Mormons to Utah, these people stayed in Illinois. They believed that Joseph Smith's son should be the next president. Today, this church is called the Community of Christ. It is the second largest church to call themselves Mormons. They have more than 250,000 people in their church.
Other splits in the church happened later. The official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says that a man should only marry one woman. This is called monogamy. In the beginning of the church, this was different. A man could be married to more than one woman at the same time (called polygamy). When the church changed its position, some people left the official church (and continued with polygamy). These groups are very small compared to the official church."--Sir James Paul 00:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
