User talk:206.68.117.82
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Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, as you did to Steven Spielberg, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. Zpb52 01:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] KJV, Tanach, and Septuagint compared
I moved the following from Talk:King James Version of the Bible as it doesn't seem to belong in Wikipedia. Talk pages are for discussing improvements to the encyclopedia --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 07:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
KJV version (Liberty Study Bible version) Isaiah 32:19. When it shall hail, coming down on the forest; and the city shall be low in a low place. [a note in the KJV interprets this way: [the city] will be brought low in humiliation]
Tanach version (Artscroll Stone version) Isaiah 32:19 Hail will come down on the forest and the city will extend down to the valley. [note from Tanach on this verse: God will protect the peace of the populated areas by letting hail fall only on the forests and by making the people so secure that houses will be built even in vulnerable lowlands (Ibn Ezra)]
Septuagint version (Brenton translation) Isaiah 32:19 And if the hail should come down, it shall not come upon you; and they that dwell in the forests shall be in confidence, as those in the plains country. [no notes]
KJV version (as above) Isaiah 49:9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Show yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. [notes: They shall feed along the roads, and their pastures shall be in all desolate heights]
Tanach version (as above) Isaiah 49:9 ...to say to prisoners 'Go out' and to those in the darkness, 'Be revealed'; they will graze along the roads, and upon all the hilltops will be their pasture. [note: ( this note is actually on next two verses but it refers back to 49:9)when the exiles return, they will find ample provisions; highlands and lowlands along the way will be leveled and easily traversed]
Septuagint version (as above) Isaiah 49:9 ...saying to them that are in bonds, Go forth; and bidding them that are in darkness shew themselves. They shall be fed in all the ways, and in all the paths shall be their pasture. [no notes]
These differences may seem minor. It does seem to me though, that the KJV is implying both these verses are a curse whereas both the Tanach and the Septuagint consider them blessings.
I noticed this in March of this year. For 12 years I had repeatedly read this KJV and not noticed this (prior to that for 10 years I had repeatedly read a RSV). It struck me as wrong while reading the KJV, because their interpretations (or notes) did not seem to fit either the flow of thought or even the cadence of the text. I wondered at my noticing that, because it was as if I thought I knew what GOD was saying better than the experts that put the notes in it.
This was not a theological issue, merely an issue of admonitions or curses and blessings bestowed; but from such insignificancies revolutions begin, I guess.
Next in Jeremiah I found the Tanach extremely helpful in understanding or seeing Jeremiah's change of person in his speaking. This help was lacking in the KJV. There were other cultural and idiomatic and language insights the Tanach also gave me.
Next in Daniel (I followed the order of books in the KJV not the Tanach) I began to see how the text of the Tanach and the commentaries on it (both of which are from about 900-1000 AD at the oldest) could not be trusted because those writing in the Tanach and interpreting it, knew about Jesus. Thus I needed a Bible (OT) that came from a time before the advent of Jesus so that they couldn't argue against Him or against Christians (or Muslims either) since they would not know about Him or them. I realized that these passages would probably be in explicable to them and so they might have no comments attached.
That's about the time I got a Septuagint; had never felt the need to have one before; actually never understood its importance before.
In Hosea, then I began to have problems with both the KJV and the Tanach; and the Septuagint seemed more clear and closer to the actual meaning of the Lord. (a note on this is in the comments on the Septuagint in wikipedia). Again I wondered at this attitude of mine.
I also found I was troubled by this because my whole approach to the theological and basic meaning of the Bible came through the KJV. My concordance is for the KJV. Almost all the commentaries I have are keyed to the KJV. I have software where I can do word searches with Strong, Harris, or Vine but also this is keyed to the KJV. And so if I doubt the KJV, or have problems with it's text (as well as notes) then all these tools are somewhat useless or I will essentially need to be check and 'translate' them to use them.
This troubled me and in a way is traumatizing, because I had just begun to make great progress in detecting verses alluding to the resurrection in the OT (where I had never seen them before). I was also finding references to 'original sin' which would help me to work on issues about that. I also was finding verses about and understanding the concept of 'son of God' more. Much clarification was occurring after many years of reading the Holy Bible. But now the very source of my text is in question.
Perhaps this is a trial all Christians go though that stay at it long enough. It's not that I doubt that the Bible is God's word; but rather that I am beginning to see man's willfulness in altering it to suit their purposes or for other unknown reasons (maybe even out of ignorance).
I haven't yet resolved to take up Greek. That would seem the most likely, but then there is Hebrew, and Aramaic, and even Latin. Still I suspect that were I to pursue just Greek it would not resolve anything. I would lack the skill or the vocabulary, or the words themselves would be too general (even in Greek). Further this is question not of language of text, but of the source of the text, and the translators and scribes attitudes and motivation.
Dear Lord, guide me in this.
please consider deleting the above essay from here and raising the issue in a religious forum on the internet. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 07:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
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