User talk:68.11.45.124

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Why don't you go to hell? I've read your pathetic little profile, making up lies about the United States and using typical moral equivalence to pretend the firebombing of Dresden is somehow the Allies' fault. Who started WWII? Germany. Who started the Cold War? The USSR. Who tried to stop both of these hellish forces that together slaughtered well over 100 million people? The United States, moron. Read a little history before defending STALINIST groups like Not in Our Name. The President of France didn't want the liberation of Iraq because HE WAS GOOD FRIENDS WITH SADDAM AND WAS DOING BUSINESSS WITH HIM IN VIOLATION OF THE U.N. SANCTIONS. Saddam Hussein killed 300,000 of his own people, but he must be better than the United States, right, since everyone bad that happens in the world is our fault. The US spends more on foreign aid to Africa than all other countries. In fact the equivalent of 4 Marshall Plans have been injected into Africa in the past 50 years, so don't make up crap about us not "doing" anything for the Third World. Europe is a backwards left-wing wasteland where newspapers attack Israel instead of Sudan, a Muslim country that's slaughtered 2 million people because of the color of their skin. Communist China has killed 80 million of its own people, and yet Europeans think the US and Israel are the greatest threats to world peace? See why Americans believe Europeans are retards? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.11.45.124 (talk • contribs).

Thank you for your interesting and stimulating comments. In future, it would be better (if you are willing) for you to sign your comments with four tildes (~ ~ ~ ~) - so as to simplify debate and discussion. Cheers, Badgerpatrol 03:03, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your enlightening comments. As you ask for a kicking in case you deserve it on your page I would like to remind you that wikipedia has no room for personal attacks.

I think that civilians at Dresden went through hell like civilians at Coventry and other places. I entirely agree that World War II is to be blamed on the Nazis who committed the worst crimes the world has seen. I however do not see at all why this should blind anyone on the fact that these acts provoked the Allies into the burning of hundreds of thousands of civilians at Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, crimes against humanity.

As 4 out of 7 of the G7 countries are European and Luxembourg is the richest country of the world I cannot follow you about Europe being backwards. Italy, Austria, the Netherlands, and Denmark have clear right-wing governments, even fascists among them, so a generalized "left-wing" is incorrect.

I fully agree that Saddam Hussein was a tyrant, however, it deeply troubles me how the reputation of "the west" and its values was damaged by the war of aggression in Iraq. While in Eastern Germany and the neighbouring countries people once marched in order to join the world they dreamt of, a world of justice, liberty and wealth, nowadays people all over the world are disenchanted. Quite shocking that what people fight for strongest today in their eyes can only be achieved with terror. The invasion of Iraq was a violation of the UN Charter, thereby a war of aggression just like the invasion of Poland, and the culprits should be tried at The Hague.

As for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, crimes were comitted on both sides, and I do not see a reason to turn a blind eye on any one.

Concerning Africa, if the US spent what it spent for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on educaction or sanitation, less people would be driven into the hands of terrorists. Unfortunately, aid does not even come close to the hundreds of billions of "defense" that brought unprecedented terrorism to Iraq while vast parts of Afghanistan are still in anarchy. And the US practice not to aid governments who propagate saver sex costs many lifes.

I have personal friends from the US and honour the country's great achievements. As one should always do with ones friends, I am honest in disagreement, too.

Please sign your remarks using ~~~~ in the future. Get-back-world-respect 03:31, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hello

You didn't respond to my main points; that 4 Marshall Plans have been put into Africa since the 1960s, that in fact the US has spent billions and billions and billions in foreign aid in the past 50 years, etc. Iowa farmer Norman Borlaug's Green Revolution created greater crop yields in the Third World and saved probably a billion lives, did the Europress ever report that while it bashes the US government every day, 24/7? Also you sidestepped my comments about Israel and the United States receiving disproportionate criticism in the European press. You're correct that many European governments are center-right, but the media in Europe is overwhelmingly liberal/left. You have links on your profile to all the "evil" things the US and Israel have done and none referring to the tens of millions killed under communist rule or in Islamic-majority countries, i.e. the so-called Islamo-fascists the "wicked" George W. Bush is attempting to fight under constant attack from left-wing nutjobs. All I'm asking for is a little balance, and I see none of that from you, just tiresome America-bashing. I could care less if you have American friends or not. Also, Saddam Hussein sent his WMDS to Syria before the 2003 invasion, and was training 8,000 Islamic terrorists in his country, including Al-Qaeda. Can you honestly say the US was wrong to overthrow him? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.11.45.124 (talk • contribs).

Aid to Africa is only a tiny fraction of what is spent in wars. And what is called "aid" often is just a subsidy to the aiding countries' firms. The Green Revolution indeed brought great benefits. There is some criticism as well, I am not sure what to think about that. Sad you have to go back to the 60s to find something noteworthy. I live in Germany, here for sure Israel does not get disproportionate criticism. To the contrary, the press is extremely cautios not to criticize too much. You get a very different picture reading the press of other countries. I do not see what you mean with disproportinate. Every suicide attack is reported, and you may imagine that terrorists are not called martyrs here. Israel's forces committed a lot of crimes in the occupied territories, too, I do not see those getting disproportionate coverage. An extremely high fraction of the media of Italy and the UK are controlled by Berlusconi and Murdoch, do not see them as leftists. Here in Germany we have Axel Springer who is right wing, in France you have France Soir, in Spain El Mundo, and Denmark's Jyllands-Posten for sure is not left-wing either. The US gets a lot of criticism because it started a war of aggression and refuses to cooperate in areas most of the rest of the world sees as pivotal for our planet: global warming, the International Criminal Court, agricultural subsidies - which are about as pathetic as here in Europe - landmines, UN reform... If there are disagreements people write about them, and better discuss them than throw bombs, don't you think so?

I do not know what you mean about links on my profile to all the "evil" things the US and Israel have done. I created the articles on UN Security Council veto powers and weapons of mass destruction, that is not particularly about the US and Israel. Iraq and WMD was already there, so I thought the other articles were missing. It was also just when Vanunu came free, so there was a current event related to it. I have nothing about the Cold War altogether, neither side. I focus on the US because this is the English version of wikipedia, dominated by Americans and because US foreign politics were an issue that concerned me when I first got in contact with wikipedia. What Putin does in Chechnia or what is done in some tyrannic states elsewhere troubles me, too, I however see a smaller chance to have an impact on that by discussion. From personal experience I know that many Americans are able and willing to engage in fruitful dialogues.

I honestly say the US comitted a crime to invade a country that allowed weapons inspections and as it turned out did not even have the weapons any longer Rumsfeld & co had sold to it. How shall we ever convince any country to allow inspections again now? Ever heard of inspections on the biggest arsenal of WMD, that of your country, the only one that ever used atomic weapons on civilians? Get-back-world-respect 12:03, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

You keep dodging my comments. I just told you that there were WMDs in Iraq and that they were sent to Syria before the invasion. Disbelieve it if you must, but the information is there in Georges Sada's book "Saddam's Secrets".

Global warming is a myth. They're calling it "climate change" now because scientific evidence now seems to be pointing to a global cooling, not warming. Try again. Most respectable climatologists find evidence of "global warming" scanty at best.

Are you kidding about the atomic bomb thing? If the US had invaded Japan there would have been as many one million casualties. The we would have Europeans complaining about that. Whatever the US does, we get blamed. We try to help, we get blamed. We try to dislodge a brutal tyrant who killed 300,000 people, we get blamed. Would you prefer if the US not engage in the world at all? Of course, to be honest, foreign aid is probably not a good thing, it usually lines the pockets of corrupt dictators. But I still disagree with your assertions that the US doesn't give "enough". Technically, why should we give any money to them at all? Free trade creates wealth, not welfare checks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.11.45.124 (talk • contribs).

Not even the US government sticks to its lies about WMD in Iraq. You can find hundreds of books that claim Bush planned 9/11 or the holocaust did not happen, so if you find one that says WMD were shipped to Syria that does not convince me.

The "myth" of global warming is only portrayed to be a myth by mainstream US media, while the rest of the world believes those who have done the research. Including those dozens of US Nobel laureates who protested the Bush administrations attempts to suppress unwelcome findings.

The unwarned use of an atomic bomb on civilians was the most ruthless crime against humanity ever performed to win a war. It could have been demonstrated on uninhabitated regions.

There are much more brutal tyrants who killed more people than Hussein, that is not why the US went for him. He would not have been able to kill as many had he not been equipped by Rumsfeld and Co.

Again, compared to the cost of war of hundreds of billions of your tax money the amount of US aid is nothing. Shows what the preferences are.

Free trade would be great, however, what US and EU call free trade is ridiculized by the amount of subsidies, tariffs and foreign sales boosts, paid with our tax money, to the benefit of a tiny fraction of our population, hurting all the rest and driving millions of farmers abroad into unemployment.

Please sign your remarks using ~~~~ in the future. Get-back-world-respect 23:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Afghanistan

We haven't "abandoned" Afghanistan, in fact just recently the US absolved Afghanistan of debt-repayment, just as Bush has done for most of Africa. Once again you are wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.11.45.124 (talk • contribs).

The debt-relief for Afghanistan and Africa combined is only a tiny fraction of what is spent for the war in Iraq. While only small parts of Afghanistan are under controll and the rest still in anarchy a war of aggression was started that drove an unprecedented number of people into the arms of violent fundamentalists, led to unprecedented terrorism in Iraq and shows that building a working state in Afghanistan is no preference. Get-back-world-respect 12:03, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Most Iraqis support the so-called occupation and are optimistic about their future, as are most Afghans, despite what the mainstream media portrays (European as well as American). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.11.45.124 (talk • contribs).

Did you ask the 100.000 civil victims of the war in Iraq, too? I do not even hace a guess how many there were in Afghanistan. And there is no possibility to get reliable data for that country anyway since only tiny parts are under control. I guess you are right about Osama bin Laden at least, he might be optimistic about the future given the amount of support the US gave him.

Please sign your remarks using ~~~~ in the future. Get-back-world-respect 23:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

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