Talk:Absinthe/Archive 1
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Refactored talk archive for July 2003 – February 2007.
To view the archive before refactoring,
Flavor and Production
Contrary to popular belief, the flavor of absinthe comes primarily from anise, Fennel or star anise and not wormwood.
Although it's sometimes believed that absinthe is created through fermenting wormwood or aged in wormwood casks neither is true. The wormwood is macerated in high proof alcohol and then distilled.
US Importation
"It is probably illegal for someone outside the country to sell such a product to a citizen living in the US." A person is generally not allowed to mail things to a country that are illegal in that country. If it was legal in the country it was sent from this wouldn't be extraditable, but the person might well be unable to travel to the US in the future if they wished to avoid arrest if it were something major (with absinthe I doubt they blacklist people). Absinthe is not regulated as a controlled substance but by the FDA.
There is an important differences between illegal or scheduled items and those banned through FDA regulations. Absinthe is only banned through regulations, which means customs can confiscate bottles brought into the US but most likely wont charge those bringing the bottles in with any offense. The FDA regulation also means that while sales of absinthe is illegal possession and consumption is not.
What about Vermouth
Vermouth is an alcoholic beverage that traditionally uses wormwood as a flavoring, however the current ingredients to most vermouth are not known as they are a secret to the public. At first glance it would seem that vermouth being sold in the US contradicts FDA regulation. Emmert's study on thujone in absinthe also tested for thujone in a brand of vermouth and no thujone was found.[1] It is unknown if this brand uses wormwood, if so it is speculated that the mainly water maceration used wouldn't extract the alcohol soluble thujone. Allowing Vermouth to pass FDA regulations.
Connection to Arak & Ouzo?
There are a number of Mediterranean anise liquors that will also louche but don't traditionally contain the same ingredients. With a number of local recipes it is theoretically possible some Ouzo contains artemesia species but it isn't know. Arak is made with anise and wine spirit only. It is unknown if the medicinal elixir sold to Major Dubied has any historical connection to these spirits.
Links
In keeping with wikipedia's policies it was decided to keep the page as vendor/producer neutral as possible. Eliminating purely commercial links and trying to keep new ones down to a minimum as long as they contain new information not presented in a previous link. It is also important that new links contain accurate information.
Commercial links redux
Although external links may be owned or run by people who have commercial affiliation that does not mean the links themselves are commercial. The goal of the external links section is to provide the user with sites they can visit to gain more information and these sites should be kept as noncommercial as possible, however that doesn't mean those running them can't have commercial affiliations. A distinction should also be made between a site recommending a product or vendor (such as providing product reviews) and sponsoring a product or vendor and making money from that sponsorship.
Thujone content
Many papers and books list extremely high amounts of thujone such as this article compared to the low, often <10 mg/kg listed in the wikipedia article. Older numbers were based on old detection methods and estimations that the assumed thujone content of wormwood ended up in the final product. Some authors stated these were only estimates but as the figures were repeated those statements were often lost. Current numbers in this article are based on GCMS figures, a gold standard in forensics.
Effects of absinthe on people
Little to no modern research has been done documenting excess amounts of absinthe or exposure to thujone levels in absinthe over a long period of time. However the majority of herbs used in absinthe are common herbs that haven't shown any dangers from low dose exposure. Wormwood is one of the few herbs used that isn't commonly consumed. Its most famous chemical, thujone, "is a rapid-acting and readily detoxified modulator of the GABA-gated chloride channel." [2] So while direct studies have not been done, there is no reason to believe absinthe is any more dangerous than other alcoholic drinks.
Liqueur vs. Liquor
Is absinthe classified as a Liqueur or a Liquor?
Liqueur
- Dictionary's such as MSN Encarta: Absinthe call absinthe a liqueur, so do Marriam Webster: Absinthe and The American Heritage: Absinthe
- The 1911 Encyclopedia also lists absinthe as a liqueur.
- The dictionary definition of Liqueur doesn't always require it to be sweetened.
- Liquors are distilled from a fermentations where as Liqueurs are herbs or flavors added to a base alcohol.
Liquor
- Liqueurs contain sugar added during production where as absinthe does not.
- Modern european regulations require liqueurs to contain 100g sugar per litre.
- Duplais' 1882 book, "Traite de la Fabrication de Liqueurs et de la Distillation des Alcools" (1882 3rd Ed) an authoritative source on absinthe and french spirits in the 19th century, has separate chapters on Liqueurs, eaux de vie and absinthe. In the Liqueur chapter it states, "Toutes les liqueurs, sans exception, sont composees d'alcool, de sucre, d'eau commune et d'un parfum ou arome extrait de diverses substances...." Roughly translated. All liqueur, without exception, must contain alcohol, sugar, water and aroma extract.
- Gin is similar to absinthe production-wise but is consistently considered a liquor.
Consensus
Consensus was reached that absinthe is a liquor with the possible exception of a few modern products that contained added sugar, although they don't contain enough to meet european regulations they do meet more lenient definitions of a liqueur.
Bottle images
As this is the main absinthe page, it's best to avoid images of individual bottles. A group of bottles is best to keep the page NPOV, individual bottles would go well on that brand's page (if it has one).
Sources
Although a few current sources are forum posts, those that are cited are either written by the owner of authoritative sites or those writing within their area of knowledge and match accepted sources and evidence.
Hausgemacht absinthe grammar
"Hausgemacht absinthe" is improper german. The correct grammar should be "hausgemachter absinth", or "Absinth, Hausgemacht". However because the term "Hausgemacht absinthe" is used in the english speaking absinthe community, the improper use is used on the main absinthe page.
Absinthe in cocktails
While preparation listed on the main page is the most common, absinthe is currently and historically used in a number of cocktails. The Wikiproject mixed Drinks has a category for 'Cocktails with absinthe,' see here. Wikibook Bartending also has a Glossary of cocktails.
Absinthe Grades
The grades historically given to absinthe weren't standards but loosely defined ratings often used to describe recipes in manuals. The highest grade used the best part of the distillate, was a high proof and when colored was always done naturally. The lowest grade used the 'phlegms' of the distillate, was generally a lower proof, could be colored artificially and may not use fennel among other ingredients common in higher grades.
AbsintheBuyersGuide link
Based on wikipedia guidelines and editor consensus the Absinthebuyersguide link is not to be included in the external links section of the article. Wikipedia is not a collection of links and has specific guidelines for the external link section.
It was argued by those in favor of the Absinthe Buyers Guide link that the current external links are biased by being either owned by the same person or part of the same group of people and the section is generally edited by people of the same group (but who aren't owners). The Absinthe Buyers Guide should also be included out of fairness and based on the resource is provides. Those against this pointed out that although the sites are owned by the same individual they provide new information, don't remove information about other vendors and provide minimal advertising. On the other hand the Absinthe Buyers Guide provides no actual guide only pictures and a link to a single vendor, nor does it list products exclusive to other vendors and provides no new information. If the guide changes in the future to match wikipedia guidelines it will be reconsidered.
A mediation cabal case was opened up dealing with this but was closed due to inactivity.
'ancient' absinthe
Wormwood has been used for thousands of years in drinks and recipes and has a history all its own. This page is focused on the product first commercialized in the late 18th, early 19th century produced by distilling Grand wormwood, anise and fennel. It can be confusing when looking at old text because "absinthe" means "wormwood" and thus it's sometimes hard to tell if they are talking about wormwood or a drink similar to Absinthe.
Santonin
While there are a few people that believe santonin is to blame for absinthe's supposed effects there appear to be little to no studies comparing it's effects and lowest active dose to absinthe and it remains conjecture.
Absinthe in Australia
Absinthe was never illegal in Australia, only restricted because it contains wormwood. An import permit is required to receive absinthe by international mail.
Absinthe in Star Trek
While at least one article claims Romulan Ale is based off absinthe there is no source for this and the pictures of ale as a clear glowing blue drink seems to contradict this.
