Talk:Akahi Nui
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[edit] POV tag removed
Please do not add the POV tag to an article without adding a comment to the talk page explaining your reasons. Sirkumsize 04:05, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
How does his claim compare to that of Quentin Kawananakoa? —Ashley Y 05:06, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Akahi Nui's claim is based on his own will and on his supporters, without any proven link or justification to acknowledged genealogy of the fallen monarchy. Whereas Kawananakoa seems not to try to become monarch, he just uses a title for society purposes - being however rather justified to the genealogical succession position. In history, guys of Akahi Nui's sort have become recognized monarchs only after having secured the throne (by conquest or election or whatever), cf e.g Sverre of Norway - before such success they are just "rebel nutties"... 217.140.199.142 14:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Akahi Nui
His Royal Majesty (HRM) Akahi Nui is of the line of kings (ali`i), in line from Kamehameha I. A direct descendant. He is acknowledged by major sovereignty groups and recognized as King of Hawai'i by the World Court. Also recognized by the United Nations. He currently travels internationally NOT on an American but on a KOH passport, issued by the kingdom, negotiates and/or renews treaties with other nations (in doing so is already regarded as a sovereign in the international community)etc. So on and so forth.
He has the legal, moral and physical right to this position. It is not an if but a when. He's a man of peace, there are others that have rage but without his Wisdom and would gladly start a civil war if there was any hope of winning claim. (Previously unsigned comment left by 213.103.154.59 on December 5, 2005 at 6:30 (UTC). é’ã„(Aoi) 05:15, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- Akahi Nui is most probably NOT a direct descendant of Kamehameha I; Kamehameha I only has indirect descendents surviving today. The line of direct descent from Kamehameha I has long gone extinct. While it is possible that Akahi Nui *could* be a direct descendant, there is no official record showing this connection and there is almost no way to conclusively prove it. According to the genealogy accepted by most historians, the last two surviving direct descendents of Kamehameha I passed away in 1883 and 1884 (Princess Ruth and Bernice Pauahi Bishop, respectively).
- If Kamehameha I had any recognized, direct descendents, then there wouldn't be such a big fuss over who should act as Pretender today. é’ã„(Aoi) 05:14, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
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- Akahi Nui does not have the legal right to the position per Article 22 of both the 1864 and 1887 Constitution where through the descendants of the ruling monarch, or the monarch can appoint someone, or in the case of no descendants and the monarch not appointing anyone as heir to the throne, that they can vote for one at the discretion of the Legislature.
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- Not sure what you mean by indirect descendants. I've been doing genealogy for 17 years and never heard that before, unless you mean lateral descendants, meaning non-direct descendants? If that's the case, then the answer is no. Kamehameha I does have descendants today however the ruling line goes to those with the highest rank, as it always has been the way since ancient days. --Mamoahina 23:12, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Sorry, yes, that's what I meant and thanks for the clarification. é’ã„(Aoi) 08:13, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
According to the certified genalogies Aoi mentioned, Kamehameha I has only collateral relatives left. All his known descendants have died, precisely as Aoi listed (the two last ones). In genealogy, we call only those who descend (i.e directly, i.e whose ancestor the one is), as "descendants". If I recall correctly, Kamehameha I's brothers' descent has also gone extinct, and the closest collaterals surviving today are descended from his cousins. The certified genealogies sho that Theresa Laanui was one of such collaterals (cousin), and she has descendants surviving today.
The most precise genealogy AFAIK available in the internet is that of Royalark, [1], which you should consult when attempting to understand what today is left of Kamehameha relatives and what is not. Such published genealogies are the sources required by WP policy, plz remember that everything here to be written to articles should be based on published, reliable information, and no own research is basically allowed.
However, the crown changed hands in 1870's to Kalakaua family, who were distant relatives of Kamehamehas as they indeed are relatives of the entire alii structure. The succession was appointed to young family members of Kalakaua during their reigns, and the Kawananakoa claim comes from that. I would say that even if some illegitimate direct descendants of Kamehamehas be found (evidence tends to remain insufficient, I predict), they cannot have a better claim than relatives of Liliuokalani. 217.140.199.142 09:25, 20 April 2006 (UTC)