Talk:Amhara people
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[edit] removal
I removed the following statement (originally posted by 62.252.224.12) due to POV:
- The Amhara are known for their beauty, as exemplified by the supermodel Liya Kebede.
As for the example of Liya Kebede, that article is already categorized under Category:Ethiopian models, which is more properly NPOV. I've made an attempt at re-wording it in this article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 01:42, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] pre-christian religion of amharas?
i've long been wondering if the amharas practiced another religion before christianity. Gringo300 19:04, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I'm not sure, myself. I don't know the name of the religion practiced in Aksum prior to the introduction of Christianity. That would have been prior to the 4th century AD. I don't know if there was yet "Amhara" (or Gurage or Tigrinya etc.) as such. Ge'ez was in use for a while before it evolved into the present-day languages, but I don't know which came first: the ethnic groups or the languages? For all I know the ethnic groups are based on linguistic differences. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:31, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
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- I believe Gyrofrog is basically correct; there was no "Amhara" or Gurage or Tigrinya in pre-Christian times, and yes, the "ethnic" groups were originally based more or less on linguistic differences... According to Ethiopian historians, the religion of Aksum prior to Christianity, but after Menelik I (980 BC-330 AD), was Mosaic Judaism, but with about one half the people in the area following Pagan cults. ፈቃደ 22:52, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Disputed
Do priests actually perform circumcisions? I'm told that the midwife does this; the priest might bless the instruments used in the procedure but this is the extent of his involvement. Since I've merely been told this, I won't go so far as to assert it in the article. Perhaps there are local variations regarding the practice? But at least a source for the existing statement would be great. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
- Furthermore, I'm wondering if the rest of the information in the "Religion" section is specific to the Amhara, or applies to Ethiopian Orthodox Christians in general. If the latter is the case, then I propose the information be moved to Culture of Ethiopia#Religion. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
- you are absolutely right. It isn't specifically Amhara. Especially the "art" section should be removed. --Tiqur Anbessa 13:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Moved text from article
The following commentary was added directly to the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:08, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
- "***(This is a miss representation of her ancestory, to call her ancestory largely Oromo is largely misleading. In fact her physical appearance has no bearing for her to be largely Oromo. There are physical differences between a typical Oromo and a typical Amhara. And she is a Typical Amhara rather than a Typicl Oromo. Largely, this is a corrupted view of looking at the history of Amharic people. For the start the name Amhara, according to the writer above is completely remomed from the people of Wollo where all indications and historical signposts suggested that it is the origin of the Amharic homeland. However, the name Wollo, it appears, complicated the matter since the name has orginated from Oromia.. This is the result of amalgamating a very large historical era and geographical area with the intetion of overlooking the history of some people who actually see themselves misrepresented for the large part of politically (rather than recording the true movements and histrorical events of people and places) motivated Ethiopian History. Thanks God this is an editable version, So, it is better to write a more accountable history of The Amharic regins rather than follow unsound signposts of chunks of its History." -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.122.76.251 (talk • contribs) 17:31, 6 February 2006.
I have read in "The Central Ethiopians: Amhara, Tigrina, and Related Peoples" by William A. Shack that the midwife performs the circumcision. It was published in 1974.
[edit] Why would the Ethiopian Jews not be regarded as Amhara?
I'm somewhat curious as to what criteria is required to be Amhara. Surely religious divergence does not change people to the extent that they no longer qualify as part of said ethnic group. Tombseye 22:35, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
- First of all, you have provided no cite that Beta Israel are "genetically the same", so that would be OR unless you can. Secondly, even if you did have a source, it would be disputed / contested, because neither tribes recognises that they are "genetically the same". Thirdly, Amhara is not a genetic affiliation. The are several unrelated tribes who all adopted the same language and religion, ie , Ethiopian Orthodox. Any tribes like the Beta Israel (who have their own language) are not Amhara; the word Amhara in Ethiopia is virtually synonymous with Orthodox (of course not entirely since there are also Orthodox non Amharas, thise who speak other languages)... Even the so called "Muslim AMharas" are not regarded as fully Amhara, but go by a different name. All of this is sourced, try reading "The Ethiopians" also "Wax and Gold". ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 22:40, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
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- The info. and link is on the Beta Israel article if you bothered to read it. We're not here to cater to the whims of what people believe. This is an encyclopedia, not a feel good to be whatever ethnic group forum. The Pashtuns don't view non-Muslims as Pashtuns, but that's hardly a reason to exclude Pashtun Jews. Yes, thanks but I know what Amhara believe and realize the exclusion of non-Orthodox, BUT these people are clearly related regardless of what they care to believe. You can also try reading 'Oromia and Ethiopia: State Formation and Ethnonational conflict' and 'History of Ethiopia'. Again, we aren't here to cater to people. Speakers of Amharic are Amhara. As for the article, it's frankly a mess. Disjointed, badly written and badly sourced. If you have a problem with one thing I wrote, then why revert the whole thing? It's not located in the Horn of Africa, for example? Tombseye 22:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Dude, neither the Amhara not the Beta Israel consider themselves to be one group. Why go out of your way to pretend to be an expert and say something totally contradictory to what the groups themselves say and chalk it off as "not catering"...? Come on, that is purely ridiculous. Find a source, any source, that says the two groups are the same, if it's not OR, and don't try pointing at wikipedia as your source. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 23:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
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- There are definitely Ethiopian Jews whose only language is Amharic, just as there are Ethiopian Jews who only speak Tigrigna. They are to be viewed as Amhara or Tigraway, respectively.--Tiqur Anbessa 13:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
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Oh yeah, the other thing you wrote about "AMhara live adjacent to the Red Sea" is also totally wrong and uninformed. The Amhara do not live adjacent to the Red Sea. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 23:11, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
- Uh okay. I'm not an expert, but this article does need a lot of work. Great, so you get to decide what is put into this article? I take it you're the expert then? Well, perhaps you should learn to read more carefully. I wrote that they live in the Horn of Africa which is adjacent to the Red Sea and not that the Amhara live adjacent to the Red Sea. Geez, talk about arrogant. I encounter lots of people who may be off-track, but strangely enough I don't make snide remarks. I didn't point to wikipedia as my source. I said the article on the Beta Israel links to genetic studies about their links to the peoples of Ethiopia. Man, are you this lazy or just stuck in, "I know all I need to know from the book I read." Well, when talking about Amharic speakers and their genetic links to each other, they clearly are closely related, but I won't push that issue. I do believe they can listed as a related people though. As for the article, it needs to be re-written. Perhaps your expertise could be better served by copyediting after I do something to fix the mess? Or do you plan to re-write the article? And the population stats are projections from the 1994 data or is that uninformed too? Tombseye 23:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
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- We're talking about the 6 paragraphs which took several experts? Where's the info. on culture, society? The history section is extremely meager as well. Nothing about the Richard Leakey finds or the theory on the links between most human populations the genetic markers found in modern Ethiopia. No mention of the traditional views of descent from Solomon and Sheba and Amhara claims of lineage. Nothing about ties to Kush. Nothing about literacy rates, gender issues, religious change (encroachment of Islam and Evangelicals). What exactly do you want to discuss in an article that hasn't got much to say anyway? Tombseye 23:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
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- Lol. You mean this Richard Leakey find?[1] If you're the barometer of intelligence I'm really not worried given your reading and comprehension skills thus far. Tell you what sport, you keep your little article with its massive information on the Amhara. I'm not in the mood to play an edit war with you. Tombseye 00:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] What and who is an Amhara?
I think the history section is very messed up. The fight for Power wasn't between "Amharas and Tigrayans". And the Gondarine period is strongly influenced by Agew (for example Empress Mentewab) and Oromos. I also highly doubt that the "Amharas" ever saw themselves as one entity before the 19th century. It has been argued that Amharic was a certain kind of Patois of Ethiopia - a language spoken by the people living in the periphery of the Aksumite empire. If that is true, then Amharic is not a language of some "tribe", but the language of people with a diverse background. Even today many Amharas prefer to say "amarigna tenagari" (Amharic speaker) instead of Amhara. --Tiqur Anbessa 13:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
