Talk:Amherst College

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Amherst College is part of WikiProject Massachusetts, an effort to create, expand, and improve Massachusetts-related articles to a feature-quality standard.

Contents 1 Pronunciation 2 New Seal Needed 3 Notables list and children of notables 4 External links 5 Water Polo 6 Notables in the intro graph 7 library story 8 smallpox blankets 9 Pictures of Campus 10 Individual NCAA champions 11 intercollegiate baseball 12 "Elite" and NPOV

[edit] Pronunciation

I've just removed the following paragraph from the entry:

Those in and around "Amherst" pronounce it without the "h" — Am'erst. However, "Amherst" is commonly pronounced as it is written, while Williams students and alumni often emphasize the "h" - "Am-HERST".

If you poke through the history, you'll see that there's been a sentence resembling the first one in the entry for a few months. The current revision smells a lot like vandalism, particularly given the questionable NPOV of the author. (And, to be fair, my own.)

I'd like to hear opinions about including information on the pronunciation of the College's name. Given people's accents are parsed and used as a means for social inclusion/exclusion (see [shibboleth]) there's an argument to be made for including the accepted pronunciation as a service to outsiders (so they won't recieve a frosty correction - but the frosty correction itself is open to derision like that above.) Pjmorse 21:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I go to Amherst, so let me weigh in my opinion. Most people from Western Mass. call the town, and therefore the college, "Am'erst", and I've never heard an exception from a town local. Amherst College students all call Amherst College "Am'erst" (in fact, it's a very common campus joke) but most call UMass "UMass AmHerst", and some also call the town "AmHerst", but fewer than do so UMass. Most UMass students who are from the general area call the town "Am'erst", but most are from wider regions -- inside Mass, it can go either way. Anyone from anyway southwest of Mass invariably calls it "AmHerst" (in all three cases) unless they've been corrected by a local (not particularly likely) or a student/alum (more likely). No, I can't source this, but if you ask the vast majority of AC students, they'll all tell you the same thing. - Che Nuevara: ^{Join the Revolution} 21:23, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

There's wording in the town article (Amherst) suggesting that this is a local pronunciation (i.e. the College gets it from the town) so I've added wording to that effect to the article. - Pjmorse 14:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the wording in the town article, it's not very authotitative. It has a reference link that doesn't really settle the issue. I've lived all my life in the town, so I'm fairly certain that the H is not pronounced, but it would be great if someone made some authoritative reference for it. Anyone in the college have any ideas? -GlamdringCookies 03:48, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

As one of those responsible for the referenced website, I'm amused. :) We're just two alums who weren't aware there was any question about the pronunciation. Seems like it would be pretty difficult to find written documentation for a pronunciation, at any rate; does anyone know how one would go about this? - Pjmorse 14:47, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

This adds nothing to the discussion, but there is now apparently a radio show on WAMH with the name, "The H Is Silent." - Pjmorse 13:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The RC Orientation show used to have a running "The H is for the peasants" joke. The original (British) pronunciation is no doubt "Am'erst" ... I believe both are in common usage in contemporary American. Don't think it matters overmuch, either. - CheNuevara 18:03, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Seal Needed

The Seal of the College is at least 20 years out of date. I can't find a decent image of the new one.

You mean like this? The seal was actually 45 years out of date. This one's current - Che Nuevara: ^{Join the Revolution} 21:37, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Too bad. I liked the other seal better--aesthetically speaking, i.e.

[edit] Notables list and children of notables

I wonder if "notables" should include the children of famous people? Did these folks do anything to merit a mention, or is their presence more an indication of Amherst's cache? If the latter, I'd delete.

Dwight D. Eisenhower II 1970, son of Dwight D. Eisenhower James C. Rehnquist 1977 and Nancy Rehnquist Spears 1981, children of Chief Justice William Rehnquist Margaret J. Scalia 2002, daughter of Antonin Scalia

---

I'm in favor of removing the "children of famous people" listings. Until they do something notable themselves, they don't necessarily reflect anything about the College the way its accomplished alumni do. They should also be allowed to make their own lives outside their parents' shadows. Here's who I've removed:

• Dwight D. Eisenhower II 1970, son of Dwight D. Eisenhower
• James C. Rehnquist 1977 and Nancy Rehnquist Spears 1981, children of Chief Justice William Rehnquist
• Margaret J. Scalia 2002, daughter of Antonin Scalia
• Elizabeth Jennings 2002, daughter of Peter Jennings

Pjmorse 15:09, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Parker, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but there are quite a few people who are famous, or became famous, solely because of who they're related to. -Rjyanco 19:54, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Point taken, but that doesn't mean they add anything to one's understanding of the College, which I suppose is my point. (Of course, there's some question whether *any* list of alumni adds to one's understanding of the College - my current institution, Tufts, forked this list off into another page - but I'm not ready for that discussion.) Pjmorse

The Williams list became so unwieldy that I forked it myself. (If our list used their criteria for "notable," it would be twice as long as it currently is. e.g., elected to office = notable.)

When you come right down to it, forking the Amherst alumnus listing might be a good idea, because it would allow more focus on the College itself. I only hesitated to do it in the past because the list still seemed fairly selective. But now with Keats and Baker, Cariani, etc., none of whom seem notable, much less famous (alongside Coolidge, Stone, Meredith, Turow), it might be time for a fork.

Have a good Thanksgiving. -Rjyanco 11:29, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I just yanked the link to www.umasslinks.com (or some such) with "All the Amherst delivery menus." I doubt it was maliciously spammed, but it seems awfully thinly connected to the College. Any comments? Pjmorse 02:29, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Water Polo

So, what is the name of the water polo team? Pjmorse 13:25, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I'm going to keep reverting additions of "YoHo" in the water polo team name unless someone can explain to me why they, in fact, know the correct name. There was a good explanation for the removal; I want to see a good explanation for its reinstatement. Pjmorse 21:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The name of the Water Polo team is the "Yo-Ho Penguins," not the "Penguins." I can give you no other reason for why this is the case than that I am a current member of the water polo team and, as such, I know what the team's name is. The name may seem slightly ridiculous to you, but I assure you that it is real.

Good enough. Thanks for the explanation. Pjmorse 17:27, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notables in the intro graph

Emily Dickinson was not an alum of Amherst College, so it's odd to mention her in the first paragraph of the entry. There are many more illustrious alumni to mention off the bat, including Calvin Collidge, Daniel Webster, Francisco Flores, Harlan Fiske Stone, the Merrill and Smith that founded Merrill Lynch, etc.

Emily did attend Amherst Academy, but not the College (not coed at the time, obviously.) She spent a year (or less? A semester?) over the Notch at Mt. Holyoke, but then came home to be a recluse. So, you're right. Emily's grandfather was one of the College's founders, though. (And her brother Austin was one of those responsible for bringing Mass Aggie to Amherst... the things you learn as a Dickinson House guide...) Pjmorse 02:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

But it should be noted that the Emily Dickinson Museum, which consists of the house she was born in and the house her brother lived in, is owned and operated by Amherst College - Che Nuevara: ^{Join the Revolution} 17:38, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we need a graph on "Amherst College and the Dickinson family"? I'm only half joking. (Until the late '90s, the Homestead was actually faculty housing, excepting the rooms open for tours.)Pjmorse 19:00, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] library story

Williams alumni are fond of an apocryphal story ascribing the removal of books from the Williams College library to Amherst College, but there is no contemporaneous evidence to verify the story.

How about books in the basement of the AC library which say "Property of Williams College" in them? I've heard a lot of AC students mention them. I can't personally vouch for this, but I'll try and find someone who's seen them (I'm abroad this semester, otherwise I'd look myself). - Che Nuevara: ^{Join the Revolution} 21:25, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Those books are part of the myth. Anyway, any book that's been in the library since 1821 is most likely in Special Collections, not in the stacks of C-level. (Though that assertion might be easier to disprove than my assertion that the Williams books are a myth.) If one could be found, that might be accepted as "contemporaneous evidence," but I'm betting that the Williams president who denied the story probably did this kind of research.

So, short summary: it's a great story, but it's just a story. Pjmorse 19:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Like I said, I don't know anything particular about it, just heard the story like everyone else. - Che Nuevara: ^{Join the Revolution} 20:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] smallpox blankets

Lord Jeffrey Amherst is now notorious for his comments, in a letter to a peer, about spreading smallpox-infected blankets among Native Americans.

I'm actually pretty sure that's not true. Can someone source it? UMass Amherst's fokloristics specialist told me he doesn't think there are any sources. A similar story is told about Pittsburgh, Easter Island, and several other places. - Che Nuevara: ^{Join the Revolution} 09:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

There's some discussion of this at Jeffrey Amherst, 1st Baron Amherst, as follows:

The hostility between the British and Native Americans ("Indians") after the French and Indian War led to the first documented attempt at biological warfare in North American history. In response to the 1763 uprising known as Pontiac's Rebellion, Amherst suggested using smallpox as a weapon for ending the rebellion. In a series of letters to his subordinate Colonel Henry Bouquet, the two men discussed the possibility of infecting the attacking Indians with smallpox through gifts of blankets that had been exposed to the disease. Apparently unbeknownst to both Amherst and Bouquet, the commander at Fort Pitt had already attempted this very tactic. Although Amherst's name is usually connected with this germ warfare because he was the overall commander and because of his correspondence with Bouquet, evidence appears to indicate that the attempt was made without Amherst's prior knowledge. (See Pontiac's Rebellion for more details.)

There's more in the links for that page, including a link to a page with primary sources. - Pjmorse 12:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures of Campus

The article was devoid of photographs of the campus. I've uploaded an angled shot of College Row, and I think it adds a tangible sense. Objections? I'm waiting for copyright permission of a truly gorgeous photograph of Johnson Chapel, which I think would significantly add to the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AWBridges (talk • contribs) 12:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

More pictures would be stellar. Great idea. I should check with Sam Masinter (see doubleshotphotography.com) in the Public Affairs office; maybe he has some he'd be willing to put in the Commons for such use, unless you have some specific ones in mind. Also see the "Amherst College" group on Flickr; many of those images may have Wikipedia-friendly license terms. --Pjmorse 13:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure we can count on AWBridges (talk • contribs) to supply all the tangible sense this article needs, and more. -David Schaich ^Talk/_Cont 00:39, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I've added that photo, but unless there's more text I feel bad uploading others. It might look like a picture gallery. -AWBridges

[edit] Individual NCAA champions

I reworded a recent addition which asserted that men's and women's swimming and diving had won more individual national titles than any other sport at Amherst. Checking here and here suggests that the swimming and diving teams have indeed won quite a few titles, but it's unclear about "most." This page asserts that five athletes from the track teams have won thirteen national titles between them, but that spans two seasons - is that "four" teams? The swimming record shows several relay wins: are they counted as four or as one? (Or even not as individual titles at all?) How many wins to how many athletes? And in which other sports are individual titles available? (Golf, tennis, squash, skiing, wrestling, what else? Yes, Amherst once had a wrestling team.)

It's cute trivia, but unless the numbers can be enumerated, I move the numbers stay left out. - Pjmorse 00:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The wrestling team only disbanded in 1991 -- it wasn't that long ago. Oh crap, it was!! -Rjyanco 11:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] intercollegiate baseball

The first intercollegiate baseball game was played between Williams and Amherst on July 1, 1859. Amherst won, 73-32.

I can not honestly believe that over 100 combined points were ever scored in a single baseball game. Is this the wrong sport, or the wrong score? - Che Nuevara 17:41, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I seem to remember that baseball games then were played under, shall we say, slightly different rules, and running up the score was one of the results. A score like that is not uncommon in cricket - actually, I think it would be a low score for cricket - that being the game baseball is usually compared to.

It might take some research to confirm my hunch here, but the score seems plausible to me.--Pjmorse 18:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Elite" and NPOV

I've seen some minor changes in the intro graph in the last few months which seem to be aimed at finding a balance between NPOV and communicating the College's "elite" status (e.g. removing "elite," then having it later replaced with "highly selective.")

Personally, I come down on the side of NPOV-caution here. The article already mentions selectivity (first sentence of the "Academics" section) so putting it in the intro does come off, in my mind, a bit too close to bragging. But I don't feel strongly enough about it to make an edit, and I'd like to see other opinions. --Pjmorse 15:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think that "elite" is POV. Amherst is widely considered to be one an elite college (now, if it made the claim that it was the best then that would be a problem). However, I wasn't quite prepared to revert the removal of the word elite. I added "highly selective" in an attempt to mirror the Williams intro (which doesn't seem to be causing problems). Lordjeff06 15:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I bet if we had a citation (e.g. USN&WR) "elite" would fly. --Pjmorse 20:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I added "elite" back in and added references to both the PBS documentary "Best and the Brightest" which describes Amherst as elite and to a Newsweek article which lists Amherst amongst the generally recognized premier colleges. It may still be POV, but it's a pretty universal POV. Lordjeff06 16:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I was just looking through, and noticed this - "but the two groups tend to socialize separately at the Club since the Williams alumni are demonstrably more attractive and successful." Does this seem POV to anyone else?

You're right. I axed the whole paragraph, since the sharing of the alumni club (while accurate so far as I know) doesn't seem important enough to keep relative to the vandalism-bait it represents. --Pjmorse 12:59, 19 March 2007 (UTC)