Talk:Antonio Stradivari
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[edit] Contradiction
First of all, "spin move" , sources are a way of authenticating the statements made in these articles. While not sufficient on their own to prove a statement to be factual, something from a source that can be checked is a whole lot more credible than something without a source that, obviously, can't be checked. Also, the fact that a hypothesis has not yet been proved to be wrong does not give it the same legitimacy as a study that can be sourced and referred to.
Someone dumped back in the whole section about the wood density theory. It directly contradicts the article on the instruments themselves, and whoever wrote it is using weasel words to try to put it back in. I've tagged the article for weasel words and contradiction of the Stradivarius article, and I've included a statement in the article pointing out the contradiction with the instrument article.--Thizzlethethird 04:39, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- I have removed the paragraph. If anybody wants to put the information back in, source it, and include some of the other theories as well. -- kenb215 23:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Quality Theories
"It has also been suggested that aside from his skilled work, climate may also have been a major contributor in the tremendous sound of his instruments. During a time of extreme cold, tree rings become smaller, more tightly spaced, and more dense. It is a possibility that this could be the reason Stradivari was able to create violins with such a distinct sound. The Maunder Minimum was a period from approximately 1645 to 1715 when sunspots suddenly became extraordinarily rare. This directly coincides with the deepest trough of the Little Ice Age. Many climatologists and other scientists believe that one of the primary reasons, if not, the sole primary explanation for the unmatched sound of Stradivari's instruments was this exceptionally uncommon climatologic condition. This is not to take away from Stradivari's fine skills as a luthier, but it is no coincidence that the abrupt availability of such particularly rare timber directly corresponds with the emergence of what some consider to be the most pure sounding wood instruments in the world."
I deleted this passage because one, it is completely unsourced, and two, directly contradicts the article on Stradivarius instruments that IS sourced. For one thing, analysis of Stradivarius's works have shown that they have average sized tree rings, which contradicts the theory that wood density caused by a cold climate is the explanation behind the exceptional quality of Stradivarius instruments.
Also, evidence that supports an alternate theory of why Stradivarius instruments sound so good can be found at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/03/31/wviol31.xml
Summarizing the article; an instrument nearing Stradivari's quality was reproduced by soaking the wood in brine and treating with borax; reproducing the wood that Stradivari worked on that had soaked in the Venice lagoon (salt water), and had treated with borax to reduce wood worm infestation. Zina Schiff alternated between a Strad Violin and Dr. Nagyvary's reproduction during a concert performance and remarked that she doubted anyone could tell the difference between the reproduction and Stradivari's violin.
So Spinmove29, kindly read my editing notes before blindly reverting and asserting that I have some kind of ulterior motive behind removing an erroneous passage. 67.160.30.127 07:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
First of all, I do appreciate your goal to display only fact on this website, which is obviously its sole purpose. I give you credit for your integrity and for some of your response, but there is something to be pointed out. First of all, there hasn't been SERIOUS enough evidence to prove that the climate theory is wrong. Looking at a violin that used a certain timber is not going to tell you everything about the wood itself. I've taken courses that have done some debating over this issue, specifically at an institution mainly known for it's art, music, and drama programs. You would think that you might see the other side taken on this issue more often, but it was not that way. The period that Stradivari lived in was as cold as any in world history. Sunspots, which have a significant effect on the heating of the earth's surface occured around 50 times as opposed to a usual 50,000. It is foolish to ignore this as at least a good possibility as something that had an effect on his instruments. Just because something is sourced does not deem it as fact anyway, which is the main problem that I have with this website. People have the power to change what others believe as fact, which is exactly the reason that I did not write anything resembling "this is the only reason the instruments had any value". I specifically said otherwise, and stated pure fact. Anything can be written to convince people one way or another, if you've seen 'loose change' or any film by michael moore, you'd know what im talking about. I want to have some agreement here, so we can work together in order to correctly inform people when they read this webpage. But it's like global warming, or anything else that directly affects the world significantly that people sometimes like to ignore for their own reasons. Some credit should be given to nature, who most likely helped out Stradivari significantly. And hey, say nature was nothing to do with it. We don't know exactly, seriously we don't. Any website can tell you anything, but we know some facts that can't be ignored. The point is, to let the public decide for themselves. I think that makes sense, to show them both sides and to let them figure it out, because there has been enough dispute at the point for anyone to jump on either side. -Spinmove29
Also, after some thought, I realized that tree ring size is also only RELATIVE to the average size of tree rings of that specific species at whatever it's age/size. So it all depends. The proof just isn't clear enough to rule out the possibility to the point where it shouldn't be disputed. This is a controversy that has gone on for quite some time. -Spinmove29
[edit] 2 Sides to Every Story
What a great scientific explanation; "...This has also been proved false by simply examining Stradivari's instruments and noticing that many of them had very thick rings in the wood." How about RELATIVITY to specific trees? How about that is a WIKIPEDIA site where people like you can give out false information? Weasel words? I wrote it in the least biased way possible, not to mention that scientifically it makes sense! I mean, we can walk on the moon, fit thousands of songs into tiny computers, but we can't reproduce a violin. If that is true, how can you tell me it isn't because of nature, something out of our control? The bottom line is, whether you agree with me or not, you shouldn't be removing the information from the website when it is a disputed subject! People need to hear two sides of the story, not one opinion based on pseudoscience to make sure some famous violin maker holds credibility. Take a look at this: <http://www.primidi.com/2003/12/06.html> or this <http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f03/web3/s1kim.html> Clearly, you cannot just look at an instrument and make such a presumption that disqualifies any scientific explanation. And we are talking about wood density, and not just the space between tree rings, but the thickness or lack thereof of the tree rings themselves. You have demonstrated the fundamental flaw of this website, and the fact that u flagged the page is completely ridiculous. - "spin move"
[edit] Dates
Birthdate doesn't match Find-A-Grave. Lincher 03:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The 1729 Reichers-Lambert Strad
This will be in the news when it's sold at Sotheby's New York in April. It might be listed here beforehand. --16:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
