Talk:Argentina national football team

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Arg-Bra Derby: Yahoo Sports (28-06-2005) --Mariano June 28, 2005 14:30 (UTC)

Contents 1 Famous players 2 Current Squad 3 Past WC squads 4 Worst Defeat 5 Provincial flags 6 No page? 7 2006 World Cup Starting lineups 8 Current Squad - The return 9 Most Caps 10 Goals

[edit] Famous players

There's a number of players I wouldn't say are not that famous, or that didn't play much for the Argentine team. For instance, I would remove Luciano Galletti, Mauricio Pocchettino, Antonio Valentin Angelillo and Omar Sivori, and be careful when adding player that are currently playing for the team, such with Gabriel Heinze and Lionel Messi. Mariano(t/c) 11:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Sivori must be on the list, most people think he was italian! Jor70 23:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Has Sivori even been on the National Team? I'm way too young to have seen him, but according to his page he was banned from playing. SncBlue 23:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

You missed the part that says he had 18 caps with Argentina before moving to Italy and being banned. Mariano(t/c) 06:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current Squad

Guys:

We shouldn't have a current Squad. Jor, I know you don't agree with me but there is no such a thing as a current squad. The base should be something like "Current Stars", where we put players who are recurring in the team (such as Aimar, Riquelme, Tevez, Abbondanzieri, Crespo, etc...). Ustari, Bilos and such are players who are on and off the team and since the squad is assembled only for a specific game or competition is invalid to say what the "current" squad is.

I like the idea of people understanding the base (La base esta!!!!), but adding the third goalie and the last defender on the bench won't accomplish that. I would be amenable to keep the WC squad in there once the list is published and until the WC is over.

Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 18:36, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

A "Current stars" list is a good idea, and we should change the "Famous players" to "Famous past players" then. Re the WC squad: we could simply include a link to 2006 FIFA World Cup (squads) once that article is ready. --Nanouk 14:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Aye aye, I like the approach. Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 15:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Current stars would be ok, so foreign people could get an idea and of course the official WC team must be here too when available.- Jor70 23:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Past WC squads

Are we really going to keep all past WC squads here? They are in their respective pages (ie: 2002 FIFA World Cup (squads)... If no opposition, I'll delete soon.

PS: Do you like the "State Flags"? They don't look good and most people don't recognize them anyway...

Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 00:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. We could have a list of Argentine Squads per year; but first I have to solve some things.

About the flags, I changed the size from 30px to 20px (the standard value for flags) and now they don't look soooo bad. I have no oppinion on the matter. Mariano(t/c) 08:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm creating the templates of World Cup teams of Argentina. Regarding the flags, it looks nice. I have to admit that we the Argentine people do not use Provincial flags to identify ourselves, but the flags look nice and they're encyclopedic. Mxcatania 20:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Worst Defeat

Why are 3 worst defeat ?? One of them should be worst than the others. Jor70 01:31, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

What is worse 6-1 or 5-0? All other teams' page have several matches with the same result, see for instance Czechoslovakia. Mariano(t/c) 07:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Provincial flags

I don't understand. Who deleted the provincial flags in the WC squad list? Mxcatania 20:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Check the history, I don't remember exactly who. In any case, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to have them. Mariano(t/c) 06:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No page?

I went to the Argentina NAtional football team and tehre is no writing or info. There is nothing when you try too edit the page

Someone blanked it, check again, if it still blank, hit refresh. Next time something like this happens, click the history tab and look at previosu edits to see if its been deleted. Philc _T^E_C^I 17:39, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2006 World Cup Starting lineups

Perhaps it's time to remove this section? None of the other national team pages has this information.

[edit] Current Squad - The return

Gentlemen:

National teams DO NOT have a set roster (like clubs do) except for competitions like the World Cup. The roster changes from match to match and usually does not stay the same. Please DO NOT add the roster again, since it false, unsourced and a POV of whoever is writing the article. The World Cup is over and so that roster is no longer valid (ergo having little value outside of WC2006 related pages). However, "Current Stars" (as in the most renowned players (Crespo, Tevez, Messi, etc) has a place here since it will help readers indentify players that MAY be included on teams. I would be amenable to an addition like that.

PS: The team doesn't even have a coach... how can we pretend to know who the players are? PPS: The one I just reverted even included Cristiano Zanetti, which isn't even an argentine player.

Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 18:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Most Caps

There seems to be an inconsistency: Diego Simeone is listed as the most capped player, but in his page he has 105 games listed, one less than Javier Zanetti, who has 106. Anyone knows how it is? 01:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Simeone has 106, Zanetti 102, and Ayala 105. I fixed. Mariano(t/c) 09:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Goals

Kevin, I just add the sources. I do not understand why are you so contrary on this, if those goals were made by England they would be featured at wikipedia front page! Jor70 11:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

1) I am not English. Do not accuse me of a bias towards England. I started monitoring some of the Argentina football pages precisely because I thought they would be susceptible to pro-England, anti-Argentinian vandalism. You do not help your case by the unsustainable hyperbole of your comment here.

2) I deleted the sentence because they were not historic acheivements of the team, but had been put into that section.

3) I deleted the sentence because the loose term "regarded" refers to an opinion, and there was no reference to suggest that the opinion had authority of either numbers or expertize. You have improved this somewhat, but if this element is to remain, the reason why the goals are noteworthy should be in the text. The Cambiasso goal was not even voted as the best of the tournament in the FIFA poll.

4) I deleted the sentence because the two goals, 20 years apart, were unrelated other than in that they were scored in World cup tournaments by Argentian players. To link them at least borders on fancruft.

5) I deleted the sentence because, while I admire your willingness to participate in a Wikipedia project in what is not your native tongue, the grammar and semantics were not of a standard suitable for an encyclopedia. Por el mismo motivo, leo, pero no contribuyo en Wikipedia en español.

I shall leave the sentence there for now, to give you or other editors a chance to modify it in the light of this, but frankly, I think that it deserves to go.Kevin McE 12:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The 2 goals get the attention worldwide, this is a fact and is not common, I can give you plenty of more references about this (Maradona 's even has its own article). About not being word cup 2006 best, we can add Maxi 's goal too if you want, but I dont think is so notable like these ones. Being the goals 20 years apart is irrelevant, what is relevant is that both of them were World Cup goals worldwide famous and highly profile. if you are so strict about not consider them as historic acheivements we can position them in a sub section. "Regarded" and my english you know Kevin I always appreciate and be very grateful of your help and patience ! Jor70 01:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with Kevin here. Maradona's goal might be worth mentioning though, but should be properly phrased. --Mariano(t/c) 12:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I moved away from historic acheivements, sourced more and re phrased a bit, your better english could help! Jor70 14:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

You make my point precisely, Jor, when you say "I dont think is so notable". If the notability of it is a matter of your opinion, then there is no blade of decision by which they are included or excluded: it becomes a matter of whim (lots of goals get attention world-wide) and therefore unencyclopedic. I will not want to copyedit what I do not think has a rightful place in the article, although I have been happy to do so for your contributions elsewhere. Kevin McE 19:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I make your point in Maxi 's goal, i agree is not notable enough, but not in these two. And of course is not my opinion, I sourced both of them and we can find plenty of more references. You said there are lots of goals getting the attention world-wide, I not oppose to mention them elsewhere if they are notable. And, you know Kevin, I admire you too much anyway! :-) Jor70 19:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to mention, and sorry Kevin about compare this with England, but why they should have John Barnes' goal for England against Brazil in 1984 was ranked 75th. . First of all, who is John Barnes ?, and second why is this notable ? Jor70 20:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

John Barnes is, I would venture to suggest, considerably better known in the English speaking world than Esteban Cambiasso, although I would not want to condone such anglocentrism in Wikipedia. If you want to know more about who he is, look up his article. It is not for me to defend every unedited bit of irrelevance in Wikipedia, nor for you to claim that if irrelevance appears elsewhere it justifies its inclusion here. I would not argue against the removal of the section in which that reference appears, but in its defence that section has an externally verifiable criterion for inclusion (voted into the top 100 events in a widely publicised poll), and that section would be in error if the Barnes goal was omitted. In contrast, the goals you mention have no qualification for inclusion beyond your selection of them, which you condede above to be a matter of personal taste. The Cambiasso goal is, appropriately IMHO, mentioned in his article: it would perhaps bear some description in the WC2006 section of this article, but the current sentence is unjustified. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kevin McE (talk • contribs) 22:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

Cambiaso's award noted in WC2006 section: comment in trivia section removed as POV as to why these gaols ntable and related.Kevin McE 00:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I didnt notice when I admitted POV Jor70 03:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I quote "we can add Maxi's goal too if you want, but I dont think is so notable like these ones." (Jor, 05/03/07) You don't think it is as notable: but you have no stated criteria for notability, so its notability is your opinion.Kevin McE 21:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

the criteria for notability was (I quote myself) we can find plenty of more references, therefore, Cambiasso goal is mentioned in plenty of different sources and that is the notability of the case. Also, Maradona's goal, like barnes's, was in that 2002 channel 4 poll too, so I imagine would not be POV if we mention that. Jor70 01:35, 14 March 2007 (UTC)