Talk:Arkham Asylum

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Contents 1 Insanity of Residents at Arkham 2 Section Headings 3 Origin of Name 4 AA: Living Hell Characters 5 Trivia Query 6 The Sandman 7 Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum 8 'The preservation and relocation of Arkham asylum'

[edit] Insanity of Residents at Arkham

The Batman villains, The Penguin, Catwoman and usually The Riddler are typically considered criminally sane, nor have a serious medical condition like Mr. Freeze in the comics and as such are usually never shown as inmates at Arkham Asylum. -User:Kchishol1970

I agree with Kchisho, and recently saw fit to change the article to express that Arkham is an Insane Asylum, and thus the paragraph about non-insane residents being kept there is misleading and unneccesary. It doesn't matter whether or not it says "the majority." Quite simply, the villains there are the insane ones, and the villains that aren't, Catwoman, Penguin, Rupert Thorne and other mafia types, go to Blackgate. Because of them, one cannot say that all Batman's villains are in Arkham, and because of JLA foes like Dr. Destiny and Jason Woodrue/Floronic Man, one cannot say that the villains there are all Batman's! There is something to be said that maybe Croc and Mr. Freeze aren't quite as insane as they are too-difficult-to-contain, but this notion is already expressed in the entry.--Signor Giuseppe 04:58, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

But there really was a trend during the eighties for the majority of Batman's villains to end up in Arkham regardless of whether they belonged there. Perhaps the situation has since improved - in which case, perhaps a sentence could be added saying so - but the statement is not incorrect. --Paul A 01:19, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

That's true, but lots of trends in Batman comics (say, all of the 1950s) have little to do with current Gotham City, and are best overlooked. If the notion of sane criminals in Arkham is essential to this entry, then why not add it right after we talk about the special needs patients? Something like "Additionally, there was a trend in some 1980s Batman comics to have all Gotham criminals contained in Arkham." I'd like to ask for proof that a non-insane, non special-needs Batman villain was kept in Arkham, but it's not exactly fair to make a fellow dig through his stack of back issues just for a Wikipedia entry.--Signor Giuseppe 02:39, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've got a vague memory of the Penguin pretending to be insane to escape prison?

[edit] Section Headings

I recently created a section simply called "Graphic Novels," the title of which was, quite reasonably I'd say, changed to "Graphic Novels featuring Arkham Asylum." I fear, however, that this opens the floodgates to a lot of graphic novels that don't belong here, such as Batman: Nosferatu or Harley Quinn or hundreds of others. In this case, I think that a simple "Graphic Novels" might be better, the implication being that this in an entry for "Arkham Asylum" and here are some graphic novels with that name. Then, users looking for information of the books I mentioned might find it elsewhere, at Harley Quinn and Nosferatu.--Signor Giuseppe 05:09, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

But if the section is just for graphic novels named Arkham Asylum, it would only have one graphic novel in it, because Arkham Asylum: Hell on Earth is named Arkham Asylum: Hell on Earth (and should probably be at Arkham Asylum: Hell on Earth instead of at Arkham Asylum. Come to think of it, Arkham Asylum should probably be at Arkham Asylum (graphic novel) instead of at Arkham Asylum). --Paul A 01:44, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'd say that "Hell on Earth" is merely the subtitle, and that both of these books are notable for taking place entirely within Arkham Asylum, rather than just having it be the place from which the villain escapes for his caper. Making two new Wikipedia entries is not the answer. The entry is well constructed as it is: Here's what the institution is, here's what's happened there, here's who lives there, and here's it's official, recorded history. The section heading is a fine description of the books that are there, but I think simply "Graphic Novels" would be more restrictive against the many books that feature Arkham in their pages.--Signor Giuseppe 02:39, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of Name

Moved from article:

H.P. Lovecraft met Bob Kane, Batman's co-creator, in 1935 on a train. The young Kane told Lovecraft that he loved how he wrote his stories and told him about a vigilante that had literally gone insane with vengeance over something that cannot be destroyed: the essence of evil itself. Kane was so grateful for being able to meet Lovecraft only two years before his death that he created Arkham Asylum as a means of paying tribute to his hero.

Doesn't seem to have any connection at all with the actual history of the Asylum... --Paul A 07:20, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

According to this page the asylum didn't appear in comic form until 40 years later. Given that , and the fact that its credited as someone else's creation, I find this story suspect. Its likely a fabrication based only on the fact that Kane and Lovecraft were alive at the same time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 05:30, August 4, 2006 (talk • contribs) 68.115.75.44.

Your point being? ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 23:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It explains why it was named Arkham. So long as the story is true I think it should be returned to the article. Another question I have is: isn't the name "Arkham Asylum" actually used explicitly by Lovecraft in some of his stories? Arkham is definitely Lovecraft's creation, but I seem to remember the Asylum is too. --Chinasaur 13:15, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

You misunderstand what I meant by "seems to have no connection with actual history". The emphasis is on "actual": the connection is obvious if it is true, but as far as I can tell, it isn't.

I don't recall ever having read a Lovecraft story containing an Arkham Asylum, so named, but then there are many Lovecraft stories I haven't read yet, so perhaps you are right about that. --Paul A 03:51, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

In "The Thing on the Doorstep", by Lovecraft, the first paragraph makes reference to "Arkham Sanitarium". Although this is not necessarily a mental hospital, the last page or so of the story makes it clear that in fact "Arkham Sanitarium" is an "asylum" where one of the characters is incarcerated for madness and then murdered. Obviously I am more of a Lovecraft fan than a Batman fan; how do other editors feel about more directly crediting Lovecraft with the name of this place? --Chinasaur 05:43, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Also, what do people think of this claim [1] that Danvers State Mental Hospital in MA is Lovecraft's model for Arkham? --Chinasaur 13:19, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think that it would be easier to have an informed opinion on the matter if they'd deigned to let us know what evidence the claim is based on... --Paul A 03:51, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Actually, Bob Kane didn't create the Arkham Asylum so this theory is completely wrong. I remeber reading this story in the portuguese edition of a Batman trade paperback.--Prime Operative 18:25, 21 Jul 2005 (GMT)

Moved from article:

"It may also be named after Markham, Massachusetts, the city with the greatest violent crime ratio in America."

No such town name appears at http://massachusetts.monsterlocal.com/AllCities.html --User:Session Nine 013:22, 09 OCT 2006

There is good reason to suspect Lovecraft "beheld" Danvers State Mental Hospital at least once -- in 1922, while transitioning out of his macabre and Dream-Cycle periods and into his mature Cthluhu Mythos cycle. That year Lovecraft traveled from Providence to Gloucester to visit his eventual wife, Sonia Haft Greene. His path almost certainly took him through Danvers along Route One, over which the asylum looms. Any traveler along that road has seen the building -- it's unmistakable, and undeniably eerie -- you can't miss it.

Upon arriving in Gloucester, Lovecraft was inspired by Sonia Haft Greene to begin a new sequence of stories. See reference below. --User:Session Nine 013:47, 09 OCT 2006

From http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1995/8/1995_8_82.shtml):

[Lovecraft] met a lovely Ukrainian-born Jewish woman from New York named Sonia Haft Greene. The two struck up a correspondence that blossomed into an improbable romance. Greene, a divorcée with a grown daughter, was seven years Lovecraft’s senior and a manager at Ferle Heller’s clothing store in Manhattan, earning a then-considerable salary of almost ten thousand dollars a year. She also had literary aspirations, which Lovecraft encouraged.

Lovecraft wrote Greene almost daily, and in 1922 he joined her at a resort near Gloucester, Massachusetts. During an evening stroll, as they watched the moonlight shimmering on the water, they heard a loud “snorting and grunting” noise in the distance.

“Oh, Howard,” Greene said, “here you have the setting for a real strange and mysterious story.”

Lovecraft suggested that she write the story. The next day she showed him an outline. His enthusiasm so delighted her that she kissed him."

[edit] AA: Living Hell Characters

Magpie wasn't a new character - she's only appeared a handful of times, notably in John Byrne's Man of Steel mini-series, in the issue retelling the first meeting of Batman and Superman. As such, I've removed her from the list of characters in this section. --Lokicarbis 02:27, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia Query

Was Batman ever an inmate at the Arkham Asylum? --jugalmody AT gmail DOT com

• Yes
• In Batman: The Animated Series, Batman is committed to Arkham after he is infected with a fear toxin by the Scarecrow. The episode name is Dreams in Darkness. Batman: The Animated Series Volume 1 Disc 4 "Dreams in Darkness"

[edit] The Sandman

Is there a reason why there is no mention of AA housing Doctor Destiny in Gaiman's The Sandman: Preludes and Nocturnes ?--Ferndave 20:00, Aug 24, 2005 (UTC)

No. Do I get any points for having mentioned him in the top comment on this page? I see no reason why Floronic Man and Dr. Destiny (both JLA villains who found their way into the opening arcs of Vertigo titles) shouldn't make the list, if a list be necessary.--Signor Giuseppe 22:36, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Of course you do! I thought since there was already a list, it might be a good idea to make it complete. Is its appearance in the graphic novel worth more than just the inmate listing? AA isn't featured per se in the first graphic novel, but it does get some page time. I'm not sure how it could be written without sounding like an "oh by the way..." type of addition though. --ferndave 07:39, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum

I never knew people didn't know that the character whose leg Batman broke was Clayface. I picked it up on the first read. WesleyDodds 06:35, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 'The preservation and relocation of Arkham asylum'

Would it be possible for someone more proficient than I to move or delete the above mentioned section of the article? I wasn't entirely sure what to do, but I think it was meant to be placed on this page and got posted to the article instead.

Agreed. Moved. Ace Class Shadow 17:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Today the Asylum has no definite location though its in the suburbs,most likely or mansion as “mercy house”, but in recent incarnation it is in the “narrows” in Batman begins movie, narrows is apparent as slums or low cost apartments. The asylum was once on a island on the Batman animated series I think, which I liked. I would like to relocate again to a more permanent location and preserve the asylum for future stories. Writers who want to use Arkham Asylum to any extent recommend using the rural area of Gotham city, as was it the Asylum first built as for the preservation this Wikipedia page of Arkham asylum is preserving the History greatly already. [vanguard] 02:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)