Talk:Arlington County, Virginia

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Contents 1 Transportation Section 1.1 Bicycle Paths Section 1.2 Roadways 2 National Geographic Reference 3 new municipalities law 4 September 11 Section 4.1 Section Heading Edit 5 Neighborhoods in Arlington 6 "Secession" from Alexandria County 7 United States article on featured candidate nominations list 8 Smallest County? 9 Government (Sheriff) 10 County Seat 11 Nate Ruffin 12 Reverting unexplained reversion by Almondwine on Jan 26, that eliminated a lot of useful corrective edits.

[edit] Transportation Section

[edit] Bicycle Paths Section

Should the heading "bicycle paths" really have its own heading in the article, or should it become a subheading of the "Transportation" section? My vote is for moving it to Transportation. --johnkellystyle 02:30, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Your suggestion sounds good. Go ahead and make the change, and be bold with any other changes you think are needed. The only very minor issue with your edits is how headings are formatted (all words except the first should be lowercase). With time on Wikipedia, you'll become familiar with such minor formatting issues, but on the whole help is needed to improve the articles. So, be bold. --Aude (talk contribs) 02:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I think I'll go ahead and do that now. The capitalization issue is, I guess, a Wikipedia-specific thing. I was always led to believe that all important words in titles were to be capped. I guess I do have much to learn. As you have said, wikipedia favors the bold, as does fortune. --johnkellystyle 05:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roadways

I edited the I-66 section because it did not have NPOV, and wound up just copying the equivalent section from the I-66 entry. I'm not sure what the Wikipedia policy is for such duplications, and would appreciate guidance. Also, I think the lawsuit may have been against the USDT, not ADOT, but I'm not sure.

I tried to replace the ACPD picture with a street map of Arlington, but was unable to find a suitable map that didn't have copyright issues (Arlington County's own maps, while very good, are huge PDFs and copyrighted). I tried to put the picture back in somewhere, but couldn't see a place where it was warranted -- it's a nice pic -- so may be someone will do a section on public services and it can go there. I also adjusted that section for NPOV, because Arlington actually does have a very extensive street grid -- more extensive and well-planned than many areas in the Country, particulary in suburban areas and on the East Coast, and discontinuity is not at all uncommon (though South Courthouse Road must seem a little strangely named to the people who live there). Thesmothete 16:18, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National Geographic Reference

Several years ago for in an article in National Geographic one of the high schools in the area was pictured to illustrate the diversity of northern virginia. Although the high school might technically have been in Falls Church if someone feels up to it you might want to add that to this page --Lostcatholic66.225.69.254 17:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] new municipalities law

I deleted the reference to the City of Fairfax because it is misleading, and technically incorrect. It would be a lot more correct for the WP article on Arlington County to just say something like "Arlington County has no Incorporated towns and under the current state laws, no new incorporated towns can be formed in the densely populated county" and leave it at that.

I hope I didn't offend anyone by deleting that sentence in the Arlington article. No offense was intended by that action.

I researched the Code of Virginia to make sure about these clarifications, but make no claim to be a lawyer. I no longer lobby the General Assembly, but I did so for a few years on transportation issues.

Here are some clarifications (from a layman):

1. Virginia's independent cities are not "within a county" in terms of the state laws. I realize that on the surface that defies common sense, but while they may be entirely surrounded by a county, such as City of Fairfax and City of Falls Church, they are not within it in the legal sense.

Example: The state law is that the City of Roanoke is not within Roanoke County although physically it is completely surrounded by it. It gets better: The City of Richmond is the county seat of Henrico County, but is not within it legally.

2. Virginia's incorporated towns are always legally within a county. You cannot have a town outside of a county or within an independent city. Incorporated towns share certain constitutional officers with the host county (IE sheriff, courts). Some cities and counties have agreements to share some of these functions, but no town has a sheriff or a court system.

3. Cities have no threat of a new town being formed within them. However, counties in general do. Any section of a county attaining the required density can petition to become a municipality (read=town) if it meets a definition of more than 1000 per sq mile and over a certain total number.

4. Some heavily urbanized counties, like Arlington and Henrico, wanted to be sure no new towns were formed within them, possibly due to an actual threat, so they got that special legislation passed which was narrowly limited to them by the density definition. That type of wording is a veiled way to get special interest bills through the General Assembly without naming the special interest target. A very common political maneuver often missed by opponents and the news media. Since only Arlington and Henrico Counties seemed to have been was originally impacted by the law when it became effective, it is likely that the legislation was a method for one of those (or both) of these counties to gain the same protection as cities already enjoyed without converting its charter to legally become a city. I don't know Arlington politics, but there may have been some type of this threat somewhere there. In Henrico, the west end is almost built out, and the whole county is so narrow in the middle (less than 3 miles at one point) that creating a town could have been a method of moving towards a new city, thereby blocking future annexations when the current moratorium ends. I believe that the eastern end of the county which is still fairly rural would be the big loser on such a situation. They want to keep the county intact.

5. Without such legislation, new towns could be formed in portions of a county with the required density by petitions of the citizens. Not only does creation of a new municipality (read= town) within a county mean a sharing of taxing power in an existing county, but has historically been a stepping stone to independent city status, which really clobbers the county when it happens.

6. Arlington County must be comfortable that the City of Alexandria would not attempt an annexation, probably because the county is small enough that it could argue that nothing would be left, and also because it is built out, negating the legal basis for annexation, which is vacant and with room for a city to expand. the same basically protects Fairfax County from Alexandria and the independent cities physically landlocked within it. The adjacent areas are built out. Annexation has nothing to do with the will of the people, and everything to do with the need of a city to grow. It is one of Virginia's biggest obstacles to regional cooperation. However, without it, there is little way for cities to get a fair shake, as the state consistently underfunds their needs (which are greater per citizen) in comparison to most counties.

7. Virginiaa's independent cities are exempt from formation of new town or annexation suits. So the existing highly urbanized counties want(ed) the same protection the cities already have: no new towns in our borders. They would also like to see the annexation moratorium for big cities extended.

8. If you are a county, why not just convert to becoming a city? Presto, no risk of new towns or annexation by your neighbors. This was done in a big way in the Hampton Roads area between 1952 and 1976. When it was all over, 5 counties, 1 town, and 3 independent cities disappeared, replaced by 8 independent cities, no towns, and no counties in the same area. The total physical territory only expanded a few square miles, as Poquoson became an incorporated town, and then converted to a city and then exited York County. Now, even before the current moratorium, no one can annex anyone else. Their increased tax rates reflect the loss of state funding all that has cost them. However, the areas around annexation-oriented Norfolk and Portsmouth are safe from them, and both, especially Portsmouth are screaming about that burden and the inability to expand their tax base in the usual way (IE just annex more of a neighboring county).

9. The downside for Arlington (or Henrico) to convert itself to a city is that you get less state money and have to do more local services. Arlington as a county gets a nice appropriation for its streets and roads which would be lost, as does Henrico, under the old grandfathered law. If they became cities, the money for roads and streets would go by the current city formula, which is much much less.

10. Arlington and Henrico are the only counties with this big money difference in roads funding. All cities have to do their own, and get a much less general stipend from the state. No other counties or any towns have to do any, nor are they allowed to. Rtaher, under the 1932 law, VDOT does it all, and is careful to keep the numbers and its choice of how to spend the money as blurred and outside of the ability of the localities to directly control as possible. It isn't just money, it's also a control factor.

11. The only reason any of this should be mentioned in the Arlington article is to explain why Rosslyn, Ballston, etc are populated enough and dense enough to become incorporated towns except for the law mentioned.

If any of this interests you more, especially the Hampton Roads situation, you may want to read the article Lost Counties, Cities and Towns of Virginia. At the end, an excellent book on the merger politics is listed. All but 2 of the conversions were completed when it was written in 1972.

Vaoverland 11:43, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] September 11 Section

"The Pentagon was one of the three major US buildings struck by airliners hijacked by Muslim terrorists."

Is that NPOV? I personally don't believe it (the Muslim terrorists bit at least). Graue 01:17, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

article has been changed. It now reads "...hijacked by terrorists affiliated to the al-Qaeda network, a militant Islamist organization." Vaoverland 03:44, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Section Heading Edit

I edited the title of this section because I felt that "9/11 Attacks hit Arlington" sounded too much like a sallacious local paper headline. It has been changed simply to "September 11 Attacks" instead. I think, considering someone is already reading an article about Arlington, it's understood that the events to be described took place in Arlington. --johnkellystyle 02:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neighborhoods in Arlington

Lyon Village should not have been in both categories. Lee Highway corridor is not an "urban village" but a commercial strip. East Falls Church is being re-planned, but it is an Orange Line station area, so it should be mentioned one way or another. Thesmothete 19:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Secession" from Alexandria County

I removed the term "seceded" because it's not accurate, as cities are created out of counties. Sounds like hair-splitting, but that's simply not the correct term. Also corrected the incorporation date of Alexandria, which was actually 1852, and added a factoid with link about DC border markers.

philliefan_99 28 May 2006, 0317 UTC

The Virginia constitution changed at that time, making cities such as Alexandria no longer in a county, but independent cities. Vaoverland 05:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] United States article on featured candidate nominations list

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States

Cast your vote! The more responses, the more chances the article will improve and maybe pass the nomination.--Ryz05 _t 22:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smallest County?

Arlington County is the smallest self-governing county in the United States in terms of total area. There is a County in Hawaii that is smaller by land area, but it has no government of its own -- it borrows government from the neighboring county (it's a former leper colony). There is a County in New York (same boundaries as the burough of Manhattan) that has a larger total area, but a smaller land area (Manhattan's boundaries include a lot of water, whereas much of Arlington's boundary is on the Virginia side of the Potomac). It has its own court, but it's government is part of the greater New York City government.

A point of clarification: all of Arlington is on the Virginia side of the Potomac. Perhaps you intended to note that none of the Potomac that flows alongside Arlington is included in Arlington's territory, which is correct: along Virginia's Potomac bank, all of the Potomac inside of--I think it's the mean high water line--belongs to DC or Maryland. --Largo Plazo 19:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Therefore, depending on how you count it, Arlington is not the smallest county in the US. Or perhaps it is. Either way, there should be a citation. Thesmothete 07:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Government (Sheriff)

The information deleted was incorrect. Arlington County's website shows elections for Sheriff in 2000 and 2003 only. Also, first election to a partial term was not notable; several other Arlington elected officals were first elected to partial terms. Thesmothete 00:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] County Seat

What does it mean to say that Arlington's county seat is the CDP known as "Arlington"? Why not just say that Arlington doesn't have a county seat? It's not as though a county is required to have one. --Largo Plazo 23:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

See the entry for County seat. That should answer your question. It even mentions Arlington. Thesmothete 00:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

A premise isn't established as fact just by being expressed in two places. I would just as soon ask in the county seat article whether the text shouldn't say instead that "some counties have no seat per se." --Largo Plazo 13:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

May I suggest, then, that we first agree on what a "county seat" is, before we decide what Arlington's County seat, if any, is. If you do not agree with the definition in county seat, what is your proposed definition? I note that the definition in county seat it not cited, so if you have a good definition with citation, it will probably stand. Thesmothete 16:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

If I knew the answer or knew where to look for a reliable treatment, I would have just made the change and have been done with it. I posed the question to find out if anyone had an informed response, rather than relying on my own speculation. You pointed out that Wikipedia itself says so in another article. I replied not to say that I don't believe it, only to point out that that's just begging the question. I'll hang on to see if something more definitive comes in. --Largo Plazo 18:55, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nate Ruffin

I don't think it's useful to classify as "famous" every person ever depicted in a movie, just because he was depicted in the movie. The only thing notable about Nate Ruffin (not Rufin as spelled in the article) is that he wasn't on a plane that crashed with the majority of the players on his college football team in 1974. I bet that even most people who saw the movie wouldn't remember his name two months later. I wouldn't include him on the list. Katie Couric is famous. Robert E. Lee is famous. Nate Ruffin isn't. As it is, I just tagged the article on him as "unencyclopedic", which I think is even less arguable than my contention that he isn't famous. --Largo Plazo 18:40, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a guideline for such questions: WP:BIO. If there are two articles about him, then he's notable. Are there two articles? Thesmothete 17:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

That's backwards. A person needs to be notable for an article to be justified. The fact that someone wrote an article doesn't create notability. In any event, the same person who added Nate Rufin [sic] here the first time also created an article that also misspelled his name and that said nothing about him that would make it clear why an article about him would be warranted. A bunch of people agreed, and that article was deleted for, among other things, non-notability. —Largo Plazo 12:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Not two Wikipedia articles, two articles in the general press. See WP:BIO Thesmothete 15:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

The article doesn't state a firm "two articles, ergo notable" rule, and you're evidently interpreting "multiple" very loosely as "anything more than one" as opposed to the more intuitive "a bunch of times". The mother of three who is written up in the paper for her work on a charity auction and then ten years later is written up for her prize roses is not thereby notable. —Largo Plazo 18:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh. I'd been wondering how this even came up since I'd deleted the reference over two weeks ago. I just now noticed that Almondwine had restored the Ruffin reference when he undid 13 days worth of work on the article, and also that you've now undone his undo. So it's an academic question. —Largo Plazo 13:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reverting unexplained reversion by Almondwine on Jan 26, that eliminated a lot of useful corrective edits.

This was apparently done "using popups". I don't know why. Anyway, it restored a great deal of incorrect information, so I have reverted it. Because there have been a number of subsequent edits, I have tried to restore them, but I might not have gotten everything that needed changing. Thesmothete 17:50, 28 January 2007 (UTC)