Talk:Armia Ludowa

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Contents 1 Old talk 2 Soviet 3 all left-wing Polish anti-Nazi resistance organizations 4 “The Polish People's Army" 5 Polish Army in the Soviet Union

[edit] Old talk

The third paragraph of this article does seem to match contents of http://wolnapolska.boom.ru/index-AL.html

However, this anon IP has done vandalism in the past and others have reverted... what's the story? -- Curps 08:01, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

When I expanded the stub by User:Philip Baird Shearer I incorporated most of the material posted here before. However, other Philip's contribution make me think that it is highly doubtful that he copied some info from a copyrighted page without permission, more probable is that it was the other way around. Anyway, I asked him via his talk page to explain the problem here. Halibutt 10:47, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)

Not sure where I got the original material from because I usually use books or the original sources (but never if they are in Polish!), however in this case I remember that I viewd a number of pages on the web (so that the info came from more that one source and verified) before hacking the stub together. To stop any arguments aboutd directions and a destuctive edit war, I have rewritten it. Philip Baird Shearer 15:21, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Great, I hope that the problem is fixed now. Thanks, Philip. Halibutt 17:40, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)

Incredible, did anyone even bothered to ask the author of http://wolnapolska.boom.ru/index-AL.html about the matter?

And if the guy above uses books that are "never in Polish!" what kind of books does he use? Never seen this information in a non-Polish book.

That he failed to even list the Web pages he presumably got his information from is rather odd too.

[edit] Soviet

AL was a Soviet organization, controlled by Stalin. It's interesting that you haven't mentioned it. I'm going to change the article. If you have any proves, that the AL was independent from Moscow, say it now. Xx236 09:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

AL was controlled by Soviets all right but it wasn't a Soviet organization. Post-war Polish People's Republic was also largely controlled by Soviets. It didn't make it still a Soviet Republic. Please use terminology appropriately. --Irpen

And you define, what "appropriate" is?

Any Communist party was controlled from Moscow till Tito's revolt. Any member of the PPR was a member of the GL and AL. You may call them Polish branch of something, but never Polish. Xx236 09:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't define anything. If you show respectected historian's work who call the AL a Soviet organization and PPR a Soivet Republic, we'll return to the subject. --Irpen 07:27, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Sir, PPR was a Communist party, not republic. Learn before you discuss. I have another definition - the historians who claim that the AL was non-Soviet are not respected. Xx236 14:58, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, it is easy to resolve. Just show anyone respected at any rate who call AL a "Soviet organization" (Soviet running doesn't count as one and the other are not the same) and come back. PPR=Polish People's Republic. The party was called PUWP. Learn your own terminology while looking for sources on AL. --Irpen 18:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The so called "Polska Republika Ludowa" is usaully written as People's Republic of Poland as it was claimed to be "a Polish Republic that belongs to the People", not "a Republic that belongs to Polish People" and "Polska Zjednoczona Partia Robotnia" - "Polish United Workers' Party" was created from the "Polska Partia Robotnicza" - "Polish Workers' Party". You obviously don't have the slightes idea what you are writing about do you? And yet that doesn't seem to prevent you from making fun of a guy who's fammiliar with the topic but doesn't speak English as good as you do. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.219.28.146 (talk • contribs).

PPR and PRP are used interchangeably, as you can see from a redirect. I am not making fun of anyone and even less so would I make fun of someone's knowing English less than perfectly. My own English isn't too good, btw. I requested my opponent to simply not call AL the "Soviet organization" if this is not accepted among historians. Being "Soviet controlled" and being "Soviet" is not one and the same terminology-wise. PRP was largely Soviet controlled as well but it was not a Soviet Republic, while Ukrainian SSR or Lithuanian SSR were such. If my comments were interpreted as ridiculing my opponents English, I sincerely appologize. --Irpen 20:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Irpen, perhaps you could check some books before you write something like that. PPR stands for Polska Partia Robotnicza, which was the "Polish" agency of the Soviet commie party. And it was definitely Soviet-controlled, although you're right that it was not entirely Soviet. //Halibutt 20:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The issue is not really was it Soviet (controlled) entirely or not. The issue is whether it is right to call it a "Soviet organization". CPSU was Soviet organization. Komsomol also was. Red Army wasa Soviet organization. Neither AL nor Polska Partia Robotnicza were Soviet organizations, nor PRP was a Soviet Republic no matter how much Soviet controlled it was. Please stick to the subject. --Irpen 20:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

They were Soviet and pretended not to be, to deceive Polish people and some Western politicians. Mareshal Rokossovsky wore Polish uniform and Bierut pretended to be a roman-catholic Pole with no party adherence. Ukraine had also a ministry of foreign affairs, like Poland. Soviet Army units occupied about 1% of Poland, including such key points like Świnoujście. Xx236 11:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The Soviets never occupied Swinoujscie; you should know what percentage of Cyprus is still occupied by your beloved English, who never really came there to liberate it in the first place.

It was not PRP, but PRL. Besides, the GL or AL were as much "Soviet" as the AK was "British" - ever want to point that out? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.86.52.175 (talk • contribs).

I used to live in USSR (was born there and moved to US in '91) Poland was always referred to in both history books and news/etc as friendly country, not a 16th republic (15 republics made up USSR more or less the way USA is made up of 51 states). I also noticed that while article on AK is quite extensive, the AL article seems to mention it omre or less in passing like AL did not do anything even remotely heroic. --RossZ R 03:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] all left-wing Polish anti-Nazi resistance organizations

It's not true. The biggest left-wing party was PPS. Xx236 10:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

And part of the PPS joined the AL, only you forgot to mention it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.86.52.175 (talk • contribs).

[edit] “The Polish People's Army"

The quoted text is about the LWP. not AL. Xx236 11:33, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Polish Army in the Soviet Union

There isn't such article. Was it the 1. Army or something more? Xx236 13:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC)