Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dimitrios Zaphiropoulos

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. No sources are in the article barring one website. Reliable sources are the foundation of an article or even a merge and there aren't any in this article, exactly as the delete recomendations suggest. as always, I'll happily restore a deleted article into userspace if someone wants to work on making it up to the inclusion standard. - brenneman 02:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dimitrios Zaphiropoulos

Dimitrios Zaphiropoulos (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Delete - non-notable leader of minor Greek political party. Google produces virtually no hits if you exclude Wikipedia and its more obvious mirrors - see here. Nothing verifiable to say about this person who has never held office and who isn't deemed worthy of mention by the media, judging by what's on the internet. --SandyDancer 12:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep He is notable because he is the leader of a political party. If you want more google hits you must put his Greek name on search. More sources will be provided. Mitsos 12:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment If he was notable enough for an article on English Wikipedia, he would have been mentioned at least a few times by English language publications. There are plenty of English language Greek news sources, and none of those seems to have mentioned him. Hardly a "strong keep". --SandyDancer 12:24, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
    • If Antonios Androutsopoulos is notable, then he is too. Mitsos 12:27, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
      • You are free to nominate that article for deletion. We are talking about this article, not that one. --SandyDancer 12:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Sources are now provided. Mitsos 12:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, notable enough to get some notice in Greece though I have my doubts about the 25 year test Alf photoman 14:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment where is the evidence he is notable in Greece? If I am missing something major, happy to withdraw the nomination - but I just can't see how anyone needs an article on English Wikipedia if they haven't been mentioned in any mainstream press sources. --SandyDancer 17:45, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral/Comment May be notable enough, though needs more sources. Also, I have a real problem with using the 'Google-Test' for subjects that aren't going to be prominent in English language publications. Google may be a decent means of gauging notability for bands, people and such that are English speaking but when dealing with politicians and such from non-English speaking countries this simply is not the case. A lot of these countries don't utilize the internet nearly as much as English-speaking countries and such topics aren't going to be well represented on-line though this does not indicate a lack of notability. Also, the above statement that if he is notable he'll be in English publications sounds, and I don't mean any offense, rather arrogant and a symptom of Wikipedia's systemic bias as it indicates that if something is written about a lot on English websites then it is automatically non-notable which is simply ridiculous. The vast majority of the world's population is NOT English speaking. --The Way 21:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

We are talking about Greece here - internet use is as prevalent there as it would be anywhere, I'd imagine. Greece is not a third world country, pal! My point is that there are lots of English language Greek newspapers etc throughout the world and in Greece itself and the net doesn't produce a single article from any of them mentioning this guy - I think that says something about his notability, personally. And it certainly means we can't very easily improve the article with reliable sources - because there aren't any. --SandyDancer 21:37, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I never insinuated that Greek was a developing country, I am perfectly aware of it's status in the international community. No need to be hostile towards me. I am simply saying that we can't hold individuals who are not English speakers to the same exact standards given to native English speakers. Someone who may be notable in Greece isn't exactly likely to get proper attention in major English publications like the Washington Post, New York Times or The Economist, for example. Now, I do recognize that there are English papers in Greece and a source from those would be nice though I'd be perfectly receptive to a few sources written in Greek, though we should require more than one or two when using sources written in other languages. If you'll notice, I did not vote for keeping the article and actually am leaning towards a delete as nothing is provided in Greek either. My point was simply that a google search is NOT a valid reason for deletion, even when dealing with topics that are English in origin. This is standard policy. Google may be used as a secondary reason for deletion, but not as a primary reason. If valid sources can be provided separate from Google then we should keep the article, if not then we should delete it. --The Way 21:57, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I did not intend to be hostile. Apologies. I agree with what you say, more or less, and sorry if I came across as aggressive. --SandyDancer 01:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Neither he nor his party has an entry in the Greek Wikipedia (unlike Hrisi Avgi, which has had an article since 2005). --Aleph-4 22:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
  • The Greek WP is very small, and has very few articles. Mitsos 22:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete unless properly sourced, per WP:RS, which as far as I can tell, does not require sources to be in English. Absence of his entry in the Greek wiki is also not relevant, nor is the presence or absence of an article on Antonios Androutsopoulos. - Aagtbdfoua 00:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
• Merge into Patriotic Alliance. There seems to be nothing notable about him which is not about either Hrisi Avgi or the Patriotic Alliance. Argyriou (talk) 01:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: Regarding this statement If he was notable enough for an article on English Wikipedia, he would have been mentioned at least a few times by English language publications, there is no such thing as "notable in Greek but not notable in English". Also WP:N: "Notability is not subjective". He's either notable or he's not, period, notability being primarily determined by multiple instances of non-trivial coverage. I'm not qualified to judge non-trivial coverage since I read absolutely no Greek, but the Google hits on his name look like passing mentions (based on the fact that his name appears only about halfway down in the articles, instead of in one of the lead sentences), which would make me lean towards a delete vote. cab 02:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Rizospastis Newspaper
  • [1]
  • Hellenic Radio International
  • More ...
• Keep Notable, if he was in an English-speaking country we wouldn't even be discussing this. --Duke of Duchess Street 02:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Notability in Greece hasn't been established, so I don't understand your comment. --SandyDancer 16:16, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

DoDS seems to be saying that if he were American or English, he'd be considered notable. I'm not entirely certain that's true, but considering some of the minor American politicos who get articles, it is definitely an arguable point. Argyriou (talk) 02:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletions. --   ⇒ bsnowball  09:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
• Merge with Patriotic Alliance, per Argyriou above. --Michalis Famelis (talk) 20:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per --Duke of Duchess Street. This guy appears to be the Nick Griffin of Greece - plenty notable enough for me. WMMartin 16:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.