Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Locksport

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete — Nearly Headless Nick ^{L} 12:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Locksport

Sourced only to its own website, no verifiable sources or indications of notability. NawlinWiki 21:38, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete- It doesn't really add much.--SUIT⁴² 21:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Real Sport, I don't understand the problem. Please tell me more.Jeff503 21:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge with Lock picking then Redirect. "Locksport" is a neologism.--Húsönd 22:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Changed my stance to Delete per WP:NEO and WP:RS.--Húsönd 18:37, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• I would agree to that, it seems the best. LS is neoligism Jeff503 23:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. This article should not be merged. The distinction between lock picking and Locksport is simple, lock picking involves the process while LS is the community and organizations surrounding the art these are very clearly two different things. -What? 07:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC) — What aka Kevin (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Rubbish. "Locksport" in this context is the name promoted by a single small organization via a single web site. There is zero evidence that "Locksport" as a name for lock picking as a sport has become accepted by the world at large outside of its promoters and coiners. In any case, anything to do with lock picking as a sport belongs in lock picking. Indeed, there is already discussion in that article about lock picking championships.

    The only things that are in fact widely known as "Locksport" are an 1837 boomtown in Ohio sourcesource that is now known as Lockington, a place in Louisiana where there is a shipyard source, and a place in New York source. Uncle G 11:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Wait until Saturday, there is an upcoming news article in a major US based news medium. It is an article regarding lock picking, AND LockSport then the term will be fairly widespread. There is a reference of the article Here.-What? 21:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete without Prejudice If it happens like What? says, then maybe re-add. Danny Lilithborne 21:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Locksport is legitimate. I, and many other people, will be attending the annual Dutch Open in holland this November, as covered by wired magazine in 2004. There IS a distinction between locksport and lockpicking. Honestly? It's weird, that's true, but it's a legitimate sport, and not one endorsed by a single website. Please reference SSDEV, the german locksport group, TOOOL, the group in the netherlands, TOOOL US, (in america, of course) and LSI, (Locksport International) developed in Canada and operating throught North America. 20:55, 26 October 2006 User:SchuylerTowne — SchuylerTowne (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • • Neither TOOOL nor SSDEV make any mention of "locksport", and "Locksport International" is the single small organization mentioned above. As I said, there's zero evidence that "Locksport" as a name for lock picking as a sport has become accepted by the world at large outside of its promoters and coiners. Uncle G 11:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
  • More evidence of the term being valid: Lock Picking for Sport Cracks the MainstreamWhat_aka_Kevin 13:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - There is a distinction between lock picking and locksport in the same way that there is a distinction between driving and racing. One is the mundane act, and the other is the competitive alter ego. I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand. --Omikron 02:54, 27 October 2006 (CST) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.216.107.42 (talk • contribs) 2006-10-27 07:55:18 (UTC) — 12.216.107.42 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • No-one has stated a problem understanding it. The problem is that it simply isn't the case, as far as the world outside of the coiners and promoters of the idea is concerned. There's zero evidence that the rest of the world has acknowledged this distinction and the protologism coined to name it, as already pointed out. Please read our Wikipedia:No original research policy. Uncle G 11:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
• The term "lock sports" was used by ABC in the aforementioned article that is about lock picking as a sport. I believe this is a valid secondary source.

Note This was 66.44.249.157's first edit on Wikipedia.--Húsönd 18:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• Locksport is a term much older than the aforementioned Locksport International. See as reference the Yahoo Group Locksports which started in 2002. It is also noteworthy that the single largest online community of enthusiasts, Lockpicking101.com, have widely adopted the term to represent the hobby. As well, consider that locksport encompasses much more than simple lock picking. - Josh Nekrep, 12:16 PM (CST), October 27, 2006

Note This was 142.161.191.84's first edit on Wikipedia.--Húsönd 18:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep.The arguments for deletion are baseless. The users making these comments, although very knowledgeable of wiki, lack any knowledge of Locksport, hobby lock picking or any notion of the sport there of. The term, although still in its infancy, is becoming a wide spread one. McClain’s Magazine have done an article, DefCon has a Locksport portion to its convention, as is the Dutch Open. The ability to define the difference between the act of lock picking and the sport seems to be incomprehensible by some.UWSDWF 17:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Note This was UWSDWF's first edit on Wikipedia.--Húsönd 18:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• Additional "Locksport" references. Marc Tobias, Author of Locks Safes And Security, refers to LockSport in a recent article on bumping: www.security.org/bumping_040206.pdf Also, there are the "LockSport archives. Rather than hold so desperately to the old, or largely accepted, why not embrace the emergance of a new word and young community? 14:38, 27 October 2006 (EST) --User:SchuylerTowne
  • I was just reading up on all of the AfD stuff, and reading up on Wikipedia in general. I apologize for not doing this before, but I will happily make it clear that I am on the board of directors of The Open Organisation Of Lockpickers, US branch. I'm also a proud member of the locksport community as a whole. Again, I'm sorry I didn't disclose that before, but I was just reading up on the process now, and I hope this can be seen as an act of good faith on the part of a member with few other posts. (I'm concerned that making some sort of winking, smiling face may, in fact, create some bit of executed code, so just know that I said that with a grin) I'm off to find other parts of the wikiverse that I've some expertise in. Hopefully we'll see a resolution to this issue soon, and hopefully I won't see myself and my peers alienated from this very interesting community. As someone else mentioned (an older wiki user than I) we're not trying to sell anything, we just thought we'd say "hello" with an article about our own community, I think this march to deletion surprised a lot of us. SchuylerTowne 15:44, 4 November 2006 (UTC) (I'm trying the tilde thing, let's see if it works)

• WSJ article can be seen(partialy, i am not a subscriber) Here it is the

fifth story on the "PAGE ONE" section. What_aka_Kevin 04:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

• I believe it is also worth considering that there is currently no wiki entry which describes the recreational side of locks, lock picking, bumping, or any such topic. The Lock PIcking page represents a technical representation of the physical act of picking a lock, but offers little information that there even exists a wide base of hobbyists. I can see no reason why a legitimate hobby, with a name for that hobby coined by and adopted by those who participate, should not be allowed to be described on a wiki page. Before removing this entry, serious though should be given to how wiki should describe the hobby/sport. - Josh Nekrep 17:45, October 28 2006

• Keep. This is a specialised field, users with little to no knowledge of it should not make conclusions based on misguided ideas. -Gerald -- Alveo 03:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Seems like a useful enough article, and isn't trying to sell a product, thus does not fall under the spam policy. Jtrainor 10:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Keep this! It's a valuable addition to Wikipedia, and the lockpicking scene in general.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.15.187.34 (talk • contribs).

Note This was 67.15.187.34's first edit on Wikipedia.--Húsönd 13:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.