Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Miss BC Coast

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP. Rje 17:07, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Miss BC Coast

PROD was removed. I propose deletion on the grounds of non-notability (only 27ghits - 4 are Wikipedia or Wikimedia related) Computerjoe's talk 15:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Withdrawn. Computerjoe's talk 20:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Can't be speedied kept unless all delete votes are withdrawn. Computerjoe's talk 20:37, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Competitions/titles at the same level in the U.S. are accepted (e.g. we have at least one state-level pageant for every U.S. state). This is a sub-article of Miss World Canada, which clearly is notable. It should be possible to have detail here, that wouldn't fit in, at the higher level. --Rob 15:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep a good aritcle. (Steve)

• Delete At the time of writing this, it doesn't appear to even be linked back from Miss World Canada so I don't find that to be a valid argument. This was only started last year, and as noted it is non-notable. It could be merged into the Miss World Canada article until such a time that it receives enough notoriety to warrant its own article. --Crossmr 17:21, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per arguments above Jcuk 22:06, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Miss World Canada does link to Miss BC Coast - at Miss World Canada at the bottom of the page, they make reference to the first Miss World Canada contestant being crowned last July, in 2005. I also feel that there is no way for a competition to gain strength if it keeps getting cut down.

Julie 15 May 2006,

Wikipedia is not an advertising platform. Its an encyclopedia. I was referring to the Miss Canada Wiki Article, it does NOT link to this artilce and thus doesn't qualify as a sub article. If it was a valid sub article it should be linked. Not to mention the page you cited as a reference only mentions the competition it doesn't even link anywhere, let alone this article. Its easy to say keep if you just make stuff up.Not that we should expect less from the creator of the page. Why don't you post with your real username, or are you trying to disguise your opinion?--Crossmr 02:54, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Ultimately, articles for all the Miss World Canada regional pageants will serve the same purpose as the 51-state/district pageants serve for Miss USA. But, for now, there's just one regional pageant, so linking to (or merging) just one, makes Miss World Canada seem somewhat unbalanced. Of course, we can't get to the full proper use as a sub-article, until more are made (without deletion). Oh, btw, technically speaking you were *not* "referring to the Miss Canada Wiki Article". --Rob 04:05, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

And until they gain notability they don't deserve to be separate articles. Simply creating them in the hopes that they gain the notability necessary is pointless, and if that is how you want things run, I could create a lot of articles on speculation. And technically speaking in my original post which this referenced I was referring to the alleged parent article of this as it was said this was a sub-article. The parent article doesn't even link to this article. That's proof positive how non-notable this is, not to mention the traffic stats. --Crossmr 04:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

wow Crossmr - so i'm not alowed to have an oppenion without being attacked ? first of all my name is Julie, and i have an account under Miss BC Coast - I am new at wikipedia, I hope your high & mighty self isn't insulted that I am participating even though I do not know all of the ins and outs of wikipedia. I am also wondering what you have against competitions ? It feels like no matter the comments you will be against the idea of having a miss bc coast article... julie

"I also feel that there is no way for a competition to gain strength if it keeps getting cut down" from that sentence it clearly looks like you're more interested in pushing an agenda than caring whether or not the competition has gained any notability and is worth a separate article. --Crossmr 16:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Looks like a valid and notable topic (in other words, if the mayor of an 18th century town that has been absorbed into a larger city long ago is notable enough for a page here, then certainly this is). --Kickstart70-T-C 22:42, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

If the mayor is a notable person than yes. As shown above, this subject doesn't have any notoriety. We're also discussing this article, not another. If you have an issue with another article you might want to address it there. --Crossmr 02:54, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

We want notability, not necessarily not notoriety. "notoriety" is "ill fame". We need neither the "ill" nor the "fame" (though fame is obviously welcome). Notability is "Worthy of note or notice". Pageants of this level are in fact found to be worthy of note or notice. If they weren't, then they wouldn't be covered in the media (albeit local/regional media). --Rob 04:11, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

And thats your opinion on how notable it is. The traffic indicates differently and as I stated the parent article doesn't even link to this one. Unfortunately your opinion doesn't make it notable, if thats all it took, I've got a ripping article I could write about my left big toe that I find really notable. This new pagent isn't one thats been around for years, it only started last year.--Crossmr 04:27, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

What traffic are you talking about. I assume your not talking about Alexa, as I'm sure you know it's not useful in a case such as this. I'm sure you also know of the serious problems of using it, even for websites. This article is not about a web site, so I assume you're not talking about web traffic. What traffic are you talking about? Also, if you can get your toe in the newspaper, we'll talk about it. But somehow, I suspect there is not one single specific fact about your toe, which is verifiable, as the term is used in Wikipedia. --Rob 06:33, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

And that's your opinion on how non-notable it is, which is just as valid as anyone else's, but no more than. Time is not a vital aspect of notability...do we not talk about news occurences just because they are current events? This is as notable as thousands of other very good pages. It made the news many times. It was noted in country-wide newspapers (albeit far off the front page). A lack of notability here is an incorrent assertion. --Kickstart70-T-C 15:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually since its up for deletion, its up to someone to prove how notable this is. I'm only as far away as Calgary and this is the first I've heard of it. I read the paper and watch the news on a regular basis, so the media cover obviously isn't that thick. I also wouldn't call a mention in the Globe and Mail or The National Post the qualifying factor as to whether or not something is notable.I've mentioned it more than once, and no one has bothered to explain why this "notable" article isn't even linked back from Miss World Canada. The claim was made its a sub-article, that isn't even linked. Were it so notable, I would expect it to have been linked right away.

--Crossmr 16:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Ardenn 04:07, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment' Crossmr what is it that you hate so much about this page ? Do you have a rival competition ? If so please creat a page, I welcome it :o) Other than that it is evident that regardles of it's notability people are enjoying the article. And who determins if something is notable ? Just because something isn't popular, that doesn't mean that it's not respectable. Julie

A wiki article has nothing to do with respect. You determine notability by citing sources. News stories, broadcasts, information from other already notable sources, traffic counts, etc. A mention on 1 website, and an alleged inclusion (which no one has cited yet) in a national news paper doesn't really build or prove any kind of notability. --Crossmr 19:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, a mention in a national or international newspaper grants notability. Notability can be gained by the web, though methods or assuming this vary. Computerjoe's talk 19:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Not if its just some brief paragraph buried deep in the paper. Which I'm still waiting for a citation on. Its just someone's claim that it was mentioned somewhere "far from the front page" --Crossmr 19:32, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

There is a difference between WP:Notability and WP:V. Remember. Computerjoe's talk 19:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes there is, but in this case, I'm not about to take the word of someone who obviously has an agenda that this is a notable topic. If this really is notable, they should be able to cite some sources for that notability, otherwise its just their opinion that it is. --Crossmr 19:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

You have to remember I'm the one who nominated this, I'm just arguing for the balance! IMO, notability is borderline but this will set a precedent. Computerjoe's talk 19:50, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Well notability requires that its known outside of a small group. I'd just like to see some evidence that there is really interest outside the people who are directly or indirectly involved with the pagent (e.g. friends and families of the contests/organizers as well as the people in the town where its held/going to be held). A national newspaper article that is more than a couple lines consisting of "xxx was chosen as Miss BC Coast on such and such a date" with a picture, would be a good step towards establishing notability. --Crossmr 19:54, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The perfect thing would be to merge this in Miss World Canada, but it would cause a big imbalance. Computerjoe's talk 19:57, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.