Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Speak (artist)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was NO CONSENSUS TO DELETE. Herostratus 15:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speak (artist)

Speak (artist) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

I've been watching this page for a while. A google seach for "speak no more war hungary" only returns a youtube page, the sources quoted are a Hungarian myspace-type page and youtube. Can anyone confirm this is legitimate and/or notable ? Travelbird 06:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, the source quoted is not a "myspace-type" page at all, but a Hungarian celebrity page which includes information about Tom Deak, that is featured in the article such as his name and birthday, and information about the song, and that it was a sell-published release. The other source are from a forum post, by a hungarian, but is relied upon for only a few facts in the article, such as his unemployment and bankruptcy. the information is cited as alleged and according to some sources, and is not stated as blanket fact. I don't see why an extrnal link to the ytube viral video is inapprioprate either. also, The page is obviosly being worked on, and is not yet complete. secondly, your major complaint seems to be the sources, this seems strange to me considering thousands of wikipedia articles which lack any kind of source, but ar not immediatly or ever put up for deletion. If your questioning whether the subject is legitmate, I think this viral video star deserves a wikipedia entry, should we also delete zladko's page also? I seriosly question the legitmacy of this deletion request. Opetyan— Opetyan (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I second Opetyan's comments. The call for deletion is unjustified, especially for such an incipient article. If this article is considered up for deletion, you would also have to explain why most other viral phenomenon pages on wikipedia (like this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlad) are still up. The fact that the formally obscure video originated in Hungary doesn't help you out much on a google search. If anything, this article should be marked for clean up; the notion of deletion is just silly. Rikoozik — Rikoozik (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Note Rikoozik is the creator of this article. SkierRMH 09:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am the creator of this article. That is not an argument against, and I hope you are not implying its use as such. And yes, I haven't done much aside from this, but I want this article to be as complete as it can possibly be from the small amount of information available online. And I'm hoping that now that the page exists, someone from Hungary is able to add more information as the majority of the information is in Hungarian.Rikoozik

a effort seems to have been made to try and discredit the legitmacy of the article by critizing me and also Rikoozik. stating we are a single purpose user, etc. while I don't know about Rizoozik, I have personally annonymously been contributing to wikipedia for a few years already, and decided to become a memeber specifically because of this article. I look forward to contributing to other articles in the future, and don't indent to push any agenda, as suggested. back to dealing with the article, and not user critisism, I remember seeing a speak the hungarian rapper article as a requested article. Opetyan

• Reluctant delete Unless some genuine reliable sources are found, but I hope they are - this is so great (in a bad way) more people need to see it. I've been laughing through most of the article. And then there's the description of his music video: "Shots of him sitting on the Porsche are interspersed throughout, as well as scenes of war and and people dying". Oh, the irony. Now that's art! Croxley 19:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

• No to DeleteI really can't understand why this deletion dicussion is still an issue.I don't understand why hungarian celebrity pages don't count as a reliable source. In comparison the entire Ali G ariticle sites only 2 sources. Tomas Deak and Varga Miklus are legitmate hungarian personalites/celebrities made popular by this viral video. I really don't know what is wrong here, I didn't think I would find myself having to defend Speak Opetyan
• Delete, poorly sourced. Opetyan and Rikoozik, your efforts would be best spent in presenting reliable sources such as Hungarian newspapers or magazines that have written about him. It is also legitimate and routine to point out that Rikoozik (or yourself) have an interest primarily in this one article.--Dhartung | Talk 22:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

• Can you point out exactly which parts of the article you are having issues with? I'll take a look at it again tonight and see how best to clean it up. Rikoozik

I have already answered allegations that I am a single purpose user with a hidden agenda, that is not true, and shouldn't be used as a basis for questioning the legitimacy of the article. I don't know why this was brought up again. I want to point out that there are hundreds of wikipedia articles with little or no sources, and they are all not up for deletion, but marked with "citiation needed" or "reference needed". It least give Rikozzik and myself some time to come up with what newspaper or magazine articles, if hungarian celebrity websites are not considered a credible source (for some reason). again, I find myself in a very funny situation having to defend Speak. P.S aren't photographes primary sources? their used in the article to show his name is "Tom Deak" Opetyan

• Delete. No reliable, non-trivial sources (ie websites other than those like Youtube or Digg).--TBCΦtalk? 01:19, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• Note!, there are websites other then ytube and digg, and they (ytube and Digg) are cited only to show its viral video statis. www.Index.hu for instance is a hungarian news portal, and is the most popular "newspaper" in the country. www.velvet.hu is its gossip/celeberty sister site, where a majority of the information on Speak, so far, comes from. Other information about Speak and the video come from intrepreting or describing the video itself, which as far as I'm considered, is a primary source? I would go as far as to say, this is probably one of the most heavily referenced viral video web pages on wikipedia. Opetyan 02:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• No to Delete The allegations as to the triviality of the sources has been demonstrated by Opetuan to be unfounded. Note that this article is only a few days old and is still being worked on. It needs to be cleaned up, not deleted. The former is being done; the latter is completely unnecessary. Please point out specific issues you have with the article on the talk page, and I'll address them. Rikoozik 03:52, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• Comment The link to an interview on www.index.hu is an improvement, that site does appear to be a legitimate news site. If he's a star in Hungary, are there other Hungarian sites that mention him? There's no doubt this guy exists, and is a viral phenomenon. I can find hundreds of sites in English discussing him, unfortunately they are all blogs. There must be people who speak Hungarian here (that aren't involved in this article) who can check these references? Croxley 05:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• Comment According to index.hu, probably the most famous internet news website in Hungary, Speak has already become world famous due to its video-clip. Currently he is the leading topic at Index, see also the related links listed under http://velvet.hu/celeb/speak070228/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bicska (talk • contribs) 22:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC). — Bicska (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Keep per Bicska. Esn 22:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

• Again, Keep Can this deletion removal tag be removed now? Opetyan 03:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
  • You can't vote again, Opetyan. :P However, with the new article that was presented, the original reason for nomination is now moot. Esn 21:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Isn't including the entire lyrics for a song a copyvio? Or has "Speak" released them to the public domain? Rawr 17:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

• Abstain, as I cannot read the Hungarian sources and therefore cannot comment on their reliability or if they're trivial, but I've removed the lyrics. They should not be reinserted unless someone can show that the artist has released them under GFDL or to the public domain (Creative Commons licenses which don't forbid commercial use are also generally OK), but I can find nothing to indicate that such a release has taken place. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me Please review me!} 18:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

When you decide to remove a section of the article, you want to post this in the dicussion section? 68.122.222.190 01:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. The sources are valid. — Emiellaiendiay 02:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment The main problem of this article is WP:notability The article itself states that "Speak is virtually unknown to the wider hungarian public, he had no media apperance yet besides the internet." I don't see that this passes basic notability guidelines. Based upon the sockpuppetry in the above discussion, I strongly suspect that this article is self-promotion. Travelbird 10:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.