Talk:Battle of Puebla

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There are a lot of anonymous remarks being entered below. Please sign your comments! Magi Media 03:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)Magi Media

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Contents 1 Stamp out stampede 2 Generally inaccurate 3 Numbers 4 March of the Machetes

[edit] Stamp out stampede

The article on Cinco de mayo mentions that the Battle of Puebla included a stampede of cattle by local peasants. Any truth to this claim? If so, why is it not mentioned here?

Because it is a false statement. I have access to the Mexican military historic archive and I'll do my best effort to bring founded info to this page as soon as I can.

This overstated stampede account was retained in the discussion section of the CdM article because it is a discussion. Details of the battle in the article were minimized to give more testimony to the day as a modern celebration. But there is no other historical account that talks of a stampede. The French were overrun by a cunning yet legitimate band of Mexican fighters (not peasants with machetes and pitchforks) who got lucky that day. The French also beat themselves at the hands of an overconfident, cocky General Lorencz. Napoleon III retaliated by sending in 29,000 new troops. I'm afraid that a little of the Hollywood romance tale has gotten into many of the accounts for this battle. Magi Media 03:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)Magi Media

[edit] Generally inaccurate

General Don Porfirio Diaz Mori did not lead a cavalry charge in the battle of Puebla. This article mentions that the General did so, but it does not specify as to what battle of Puebla was it. There was one in the 5th of May (famous 5 de Mayo) in which the General was in charge of a brigade that repelled the French forces that attacked the land between the two fortresses of Loreto and Guadalupe. The General's Brigade stopped the French, pulled them back and then chased them despite being ordered by General Zaragoza to hold their ground. General Diaz was praised for bravery for his contributions in the Battle of Puebla (5th of May). This can all be found in the Biography written by General Bernardo Reyes.

There was another Battle of Puebla which was the siege of Puebla later on after it had been taken by the French, in this Battle General Díaz DID lead a fierce cavalry charge against artillery IIRC.

Of the accounts I have read, I find that it was a General Felix Diaz who lead the May 5 cavalry attack. General Porfirio Diaz is listed as in charge of the San Luis Potosi Infantry Brigade Magi Media 04:45, 21 May 2006 (UTC)Magi Media

[edit] Numbers

The numbers of combatants and casualties in the template were obvious nonsense. I have changed them to the numbers in the Spanish page, which are plausible, but I don't have particular knowledge of this battle so they may need checking. seglea 20:27, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Of the accounts I read I have found a list of the numbers now posted. The French troop count was specific to each unit. The Mexican count had no specific record. The body counts were near accurate. Magi Media 04:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)Magi Media

[edit] March of the Machetes

I would like once and for all to put a tactical bent on the idea that the Battle of Puebla was fought by peasants wielding machetes. The only place you see such a thing is in a Zorro movie. And the idea that 6,000 French troops were rebuffed by a bunch of croppers is ridiculous.

If you look at the portrayal of the battle as expressed in all the historical accounts, the French never got near the town. That's the only place where you might see street fighting with machetes. But there was a Mexican garrison there, with supposed French allegiance, would turned on the French as well. They may have gotten the locals excited, but there was no real reason for them to join 4,500 regular forces doing real military stuff.

Lorencz attacked from the north on the hillside fortifications. He was rebuffed two times by gunfire, not cutlery. In the third attack he was outmaneuvered by the Mexicans. I'm not going to doubt that any of the regular Mexican military, as well as the French, had some sort of knife. THEY'RE CALLED SABERS. But the Mexican forces were equipped with muskets.

When the French were caught in the pincer movement, a well-known tactic, they retreated (we laughingly call it "advance in retrograde" in the military) back north and were flanked again by Mexican soldiers on the road. This overpowering would not have been done with knives. THEY GOT THEIR ASSES SHOT. 460 dead French soldiers were not killed by machetes,,,they were seriously rained on.

I'll give you this: adding up all the tactical blunders that Lorencz made, he could have been overrun by a plattoon of weedwhackers.