Talk:Benjamin Disraeli, 1st Earl of Beaconsfield

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• Archive1 (Mainly page-naming disputes)

I've archived the page as there's been little activity here for some time. Mackensen (talk) 20:35, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Images 2 Dukedom 3 Disraeli and the famine in India 4 Personal life 5 Should his name-change be mentioned at the beginning? 6 Ancestry 7 Life of the Party, The New Yorker 7/3/06 8 Terminology 9 Homosexual propensity totally ignored 10 References in fiction and other media

[edit] Images

Is it really necessary to have so many pictures of other people? There's a picture of his father, a picture of Edward Bulwer-Lytton (not even mentioned in the text), a picture of Robert Peel, a picture of John Manners (also not mentioned in the text), a picture of the Earl of Derby, a picture of William Gladstone, a picture of the Marquess of Salisbury, and a picture of the Earl Cairns. This seems excessive, but I'd like to get other people's opinions before I just remove some. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 12:56, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, Manners and Bulwer aren't mentioned in the text because I haven't featured my re-write of the article. I've been working on getting the article up to featured status, and one requirement (generally) for a featured article is an abundance of pictures. Bulwer, Manners, Peel, Gladstone, Salisbury, and Cairns are all pretty important in Disraeli's life, which the article will reflect in the not-to-distant future. Mackensen (talk) 15:44, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, featured articles should have pictures, but in my opinion this is a superabundance of pictures. Even once the text is expanded to mention Bulwer and Manners, I think it's unnecessary to have pictures of everyone Disraeli ever came in contact with. If I were considering this article for featured status, I'd want to see three or four pictures of him and maybe a picture of a place particularly associated with him, not eight pictures of other people in addition to the pictures of him. But that's just my opinion. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 19:55, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Vote to remove pictures -- leave, say, three at the most. -- Writtenonsand 03:17, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Agree - I'd say 3 or 4 pictures & maybe a place associated with him as Angr says. AllanHainey 08:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Agree We do not need all the pictures of the other people, except possibly those of Gladstone and Victoria. I also think we need to find a good photograph of Disraeli, in addition to the drawings. Lesgles (talk) 03:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I can't agree. All good articles need pictures. The number does depend upon the amount of text around them, but this article does not have too many pictures. I would go further and say it is sensible to add relevant pictures to an article even when it has virtually nothing else there yet, to aid others coming on later who may be able to add the text. Sandpiper 17:23, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dukedom

Is it factual, gentlemen, that he was offered (but declined) a dukedom in 1878? --Anglius 18:10, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, after the Congress of Berlin. Mackensen (talk) 02:02, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I thank you, Mr. Mackensen. --Anglius 04:08, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Disraeli and the famine in India

Hello,

Should there not at least be some mention about Disraelis part in the great famine of India?

best regards

I confess I'm not familiar with Disraeli's role (or lack thereof) in an Indian famine. Could you please elaborate? --Mackensen (talk) 00:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal life

His personal life beyond young adulthood is not treated at all it seems. Was he ever married? Did he ever have children? - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 00:29, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

• He married Mary Anne Lewis. They had no children. Mackensen (talk) 01:06, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I was wondering that too. Will you add to the article?--A Y Arktos\^talk 01:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Should be there already. Might've gotten dropped when I was re-organizing. I'll see to it. Mackensen (talk) 01:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
      • It also doesn't mention that viscount Hughenden lived at Hughenden Manor, which is now something of a museum to him. Come to that, it doesn't mention the TV program yesterday speculating on whether he was gay, but that might be taking details of his personal life a little too far. Sandpiper 22:07, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
        • She's mentioned, under "Political career" (because the article is still organized chronologically, not thematically). Mackensen (talk) 22:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should his name-change be mentioned at the beginning?

Many other pages about people who have changed their names have "(born X)" after their names. Perhaps it should be "Benjamin Disraeli, 1st Earl of Beaconsfield, KG, PC (born Benjamin D'Israeli 21 December 1804 – died 19 April 1881)"

I'd say not, only because it's uncommon for him to be referred to as D'Israeli. Rather, it was common in his youth, but not during his political career. If it's not mentioned in that section it should be, but I'm not sure it merits mention in the intro. Mackensen (talk) 03:28, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ancestry

Disraeli's ancestry goes beyond claiming to be Spanish–he claimed to descend from the Lara family, a claim thoroughly debunked by Cecil Roth, Lord Blake, and just about everyone else. The matter is complicated yet by itself not hugely important–I'm not sure if it need be covered more than it already is. Mackensen (talk) 02:00, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Life of the Party, The New Yorker 7/3/06

I've just read a great article in this week's New Yorker by Adam Gopnik on Disraeli - very entertaining & enlightening. I'd be interested in anyone's comments on it. I'm new to Mr. Disraeli but have just become a big fan. --Judesobol 14:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

If you want to post a link to the New Yorker's on-line edition (assuming they have one & it is there) it may be a useful source for the article. AllanHainey 15:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Here's the cite: Gopnik, Adam. "Life of the Party", New Yorker, 2006-07-03. schi ^talk 17:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Terminology

Given that we in the UK don't use the term 'administration' to refer to the group running the top level of Government, what term should used in the titles 'First Administration' and 'Second Administration'?

"Government" would be better usage, I think. Mackensen (talk) 14:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Homosexual propensity totally ignored

There are many pages on the web (nearly 20,000) mentioning Disraeli's clear homosexual propensities, yet not one single word in the Wikipedia entry. What is going on here? Geronimo20 13:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, the entry is based on published biographies, and they don't mention anything about homosexuality–his numerous (and well-publicized) affairs with the opposite sex suggest heterosexual behavior, as do his generally distant friendships with other men (save Manners and Lennox). Could you point us in the direction of such references? Mackensen (talk) 14:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

EDIT CONFLICT The number of pages thrown up by a google search is not comparable with proper historical research. None of the biographies I've read has made any mention of or provided any evidence of homosexuality or 'homosexual propensities' (which seems extremely vague & ill-defined in any event) and I can't recognise Disraeli's "clear homosexual propensities" which you refer to. Information should be added to the article on the basis of actual confirmed historical events or previously published speculation/commentary/evidence/theories by those qualified to make such (historians); we shouldn't be adding things just because google provides a lot of unverifiable speculation or attempts by certain groups to claim notable figures as "one of our own".

That said if any of the google links are verifiable, well informed & provide plausible info either supported by other biographies/biographers then we should at least mention the controversy (stating specifically which historian/biographer supports it & whether it is opposed by others). Personally I don't think this is anything other than unjustified and unfounded speculation (& possibly attempts to put a different shading on history) blown up by the powers of google (by comparison "Diana assassination" threw up 845,000 hits). Incidentally I googled for "homosexual propensity Disraeli" and only got 747, "homosexual propensities Disraeli" gave 106. "homosexual Disraeli" gave 25,200 but only the first 5 seemed to have any relevance & all concerned a biography by William Kuhn.

You seem to know more than I on this claim, perhaps you'd care to assess Kuhn's facts & the opinions of other biographers and add a little in the article if it is warranted. AllanHainey 14:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The review in the Times suggests that Kuhn is out on a limb, and based on the evidence quoted I'd have to agree. I'll try to find the book and read his arguments in full, but it sounds like sheer speculation. Mackensen (talk) 15:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References in fiction and other media

Perhaps there should be a subject added to the end regarding references to him in various media. Two things come to mind for me: 1 there's an aside in Family Guy where Peter says "now I understand how Benjamin Disraeli fealt", and it cuts to an irate Disraeli saying "you don't even know who I am" to the camera. 2 he's mentioned repeatedly in John Fowles' novel "The French Lutenient's Woman" Snowboardpunk 19:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

• I fail to see how that would be of any value to the article. Mackensen (talk) 19:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
• I also fail to see what he has to do with the Cream album Disraeli Gears, you know, you would think such an influential progressive album would be mentioned. -Lukas Dawson