Talk:Birds of Prey (TV series)

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Contents 1 Page history 2 Similarities section 3 Ratings did not cause BoP to be cancelled 4 two pilots 5 "cat-like" powers

[edit] Page history

Note: Between October 27 2004 and November 29 2004, this topic was reduced to a section on the Birds of Prey page. See that page's edit history for user contributions during that period. --Paul A 05:51, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Why? The TV show is something completely seperate from the comic. There's no reason the comic and TV show should all be on the same page, especially if the intention is to expand the information on the comic book in the future. It would be like featuring the Superman comic and Smallville both on the same page. As such, I've moved everything back to this page. -- Redfarmer 11:56, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't understand your objection, which appears to me to have no connection to what I said. --Paul A 02:43, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't understand why you want the comic book and the tv show only have one page. It doesn't make sense to me as they're completely seperate projects and the TV show was only loosely based on the comic book. It's the same difference as between Catwoman and Catwoman (movie): they're really the same in name and minor details only. I also think the Birds of Prey page should be expanded in the future to include more information on the comic, which would make the information on the TV show even more out of place. -- Redfarmer 15:56, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Say what? I don't want the comic book and the TV series to have only one page; I agree with you that they ought to be separate -- in fact, as you know, I suggested separating them at Talk:Birds of Prey a while before you actually did it. --Paul A 02:30, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Oops...my apologies...I thought you were implying you were the one who moved it all to one page. Guess I've made my newbie error now. Sorry about that. Redfarmer 02:37, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Similarities section

I deleted a new section listing apparent similarities and differences between the comic book and TV series as I felt it was rather weak, especially since the only two differences listed were in fact erroneous. As stated in the article itself, Black Canary is not a teenager in this series (although she was originally going to be); instead, she is the mother of the teenage girl who works with the team. Similarly, Huntress is the daughter of Batman and Catwoman in some versions of DC Comics continuity. All that left behind was a statement that in the comic and TV show Huntress, Black Canary and Oracle are a team ... which is again wrong since Black Canary is not a member of the team in this series (although she is clearly a former member). I think a list of similarities and differences is still possible, but it needs to be thought out a bit more. 23skidoo 23:52, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ratings did not cause BoP to be cancelled

According to Hans Tobeason, the co-executive producer and writer of Birds of Prey: "Perhaps the other most common question was some variation of "Why was BOP cancelled?" This one is somewhat more difficult to answer (not to mention I didn't make the decision, and I wasn't in the room where the decision was made). First of all, the ratings were not stellar. They were not abysmal, either. Ratings alone were not the primary reason for cancellation. The process of making a TV show is very complex - there are many different entities involved, often with differing agendas. In the case of BOP, there were an unusually large number of, for lack of a better word, factions involved. In no particular order - the network (The WB), the studio (Warner Bros. Television), Tollin/Robbins, the writers, the production staff, and the cast. It was not always the case that all of these entities were on the same page, as it were. In the end, the network decided (I suppose) that the effort it was taking to try and get the show they had in mind on the air was not worth it." This comes from http://www.birdsofpreyonline.com/news.php?article=427

In other words, the reason for cancellation was not ratings alone. The ratings were not abysmal and they were not cancel level. This is a myth. On top of that, the ratings were actually going up when the series was cancelled, from what I understand. CureWhite

Furthermore, this page implies that EVERYONE hated it. This is NOT true. I recall the Orlando Sentinel featuring a note in its TV listings section the day of the finale's airing as saying it would be something like "A fine finish to a brilliant series". There were some TV critics, at the very least, who loved it, and I actually knew quite a few people at the time it was airing who really liked it (one even took up writing in the series' fan fiction community after being dissatisfied with the abrupt canceling of the series), so the implication that it was universally abhorred (and that is what it kinda implies at the moment, ya know, with the phrasing "poorly received by both comic book fans and the mainstream audience" all by its lonesome) is erroneous. With the changes from the comics, well, of course some of the pickier comics fans are going to hate it, for the same reasons a lot of them dislike Smallville. A decent-sized chunk of the "mainstream" audience apparently liked the show, and a decent number of critics seemed to like it as well, and the page should reflect that.

So, my suggestion: add a "Response" section (you know, like most other TV and film articles on individual films/episodes/series do?), and note specific criticisms and specific positive and negative reactions to the show. Right now, the vibe I'm getting is "everybody hated it, because it was an incoherent mess that mixed way too many timelines together", and that only seems to reflect ONE POV. In other words, I'm just slightly tempted to add an NPOV tag here. Perhaps we can avoid going that far, though, if only we add a Response section that includes both major POVs (e.g. the tangled mess of mixed-up timelines POV, and the "hey, this is really entertaining" POV espoused by a number of critics. At least, a number of Floridian critics, anyway). Runa27 19:41, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

As long as what's posted is cited properly and not POV on either side, go wild. The fact network politics appears to have been the reason why the show was cancelled -- which directly contradicts most media reports on the show's demise -- is interesting and if someone wants to add this (if not already), feel free. But the fact that major media outlets cited low ratings needs to be acknowledged. This is sorta a variation on the cancellation of Star Trek: Enterprise. You'll get supporters (including people behind-the-scenes) stating network politics cancelled it, and people on the other side will say it was cancelled for poor ratings -- despite the fact that shows with lower ratings were renewed. There does seem to be a lack of support for the show on the network side, however, in that the WB has no plans to release it to DVD, despite the strong sales of other superhero TV shows like Wonder Woman and Superboy -- BOP would fit right in with these. 23skidoo 01:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] two pilots

Birds of Prey had 2 pilots - an aired version and an unaired version. This can be confirmed by an external link already being used on the Birds of Prey page. Could a fan who has seen both of these pilots make an appropriate note/change to the page if warranted? I've only seen one of these, so I'm not informed enough to do so.

Please sign your comments. I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for here. The article already has a paragraph discussing the two pilots. 23skidoo 03:17, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "cat-like" powers

This is a nod to the Catwoman movie, not Batman Returns. Selena had no powers in Batman Returns. 68.52.88.131 10:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

No it's not. The Catwoman movie came out two years after BOP 12.210.210.95 21:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Whatever, it *still* isn't a reference to Batman Returns, which was what the article said before I edited it. 68.52.88.131 01:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Regardless, adding incorrect info doesn't help anyone 12.210.210.95 19:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

In the article now, it implies that the meteor shower from the Smallville timeline is responsible for Huntress' powers (see Trivia section). Also, it may be a nod (or not) to the older Batman movies, one of which featured a Selena Kyle with catlike powers and behavior (and an origin story, I'd like to add, that the Catwoman flick kind of ripped off a little), though again, apparently there's an in-story explanation that has nothing to do with a near-death experience with cats. :P Runa27 20:38, 17 March 2007 (UTC)