Talk:Breakcore
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[edit] August 22 edit
i am about to change the breakcore article back to the state it was before aug 22.
the current entry, is just about unprovable geographic lists, and then it adds an artist list, which is repeated below, it lacks formatting, it lacks the depth of the prevous entry, etc. etc. the previous entry wasn't perfect either. but it was better, I would like that
-before a mayor edit like this, some kind of warning or argumentation is posted here in the discussion board. -articles be changed little by little, on parts/sentences/words where you are SURE you can make an essential improvement, I am not interested is just "your version of the story". perhaps if you have something long to write you can start under a heading, now we have a "history" heading and it goes on talking about how things are now... not good.
anyway, if there are no responses when i check this again, i will change it back to the august 21 version--Droon 17:08, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Main definition
i don't agree with some of the additions to the main definition.
instead following a looser set of musical ideals. i would like to replace "ideals" with "attitude". i know for i one i don't have any ideals, and certainly not the same ideal as many of the other producers i meet, but a similar attitude i do recognise
The very nature of breakcore is anti-establishment, often using production techniques or sounds to intentionally alienate the non-breakcore listener.
bullshit. why the heel do you think there are so many pop mash ups in breakcore, they act as sugar coating to the bitter pill intended for "non breakcore listeners" to swallow. the degree of "anti establishmentness" greatly varries. if it were so "anti" why arent ther more thracks with a political messge, they exist, but are rather rare i think. once again, i think rather then explicit ideals or voiced opinions which would reflect this anti-establishmentness, there is an attitude which implies this. some are anti establishment, but alot are also indefferent to the establishment, walking their own path without caring about the mainstream or establishment. for example the widespread obvious disregard for copyright laws OR use of squats out of opportunism rather then conviction.
Musically, breakcore is centered around the deconstruction and creative reassembly of common breakbeats from other music genres.
waay too limiting, like all we do is rearrange existing breakbeats with recylce. -a break doesn't need to be rearranged, straight amens with a bit of distortion are commonplace -a break is often composed with entirely self generated sounds or sounds samples from non breakbeat sources. for example the omnipresent 909 kick and variants is not a part of any breakbeat -breakcore can be entirely breakbeatless. for ex snares's winnipeg. or some more noisy or ambient stuff made by breakcore artists, are made with the same attitude and i think , should or could be called breakcore. --Droon 11:40, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
it seems like there's a reason that the word 'break' is in 'breakcore'? Notsleeping 00:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
there's more ways of "breaking" then old 70's funk breakbeats. how about breaking rules, breaking with tradition, breaking bones. i'm all for widening the definition as much as possible..--Droon
I agree with Droon here, perhaps you should edit some parts, droon. Add something about indifference to the society and remove or adapt the 'deconstruction of breakbeats' bit. The Wikipedia guidelines for editting say that you should edit every time you honestly believe there should be a change in the article. This is how the wikipedia system works. So.. edit! 213.219.140.231 15:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Old entries
Interesting... i wrote what i thought was a pretty good entry a while back, but it's been heavily edited. I'm not sure why, but what I thought was a good version existed around Dec 25th, until it got wiped.
How does that work exactly? Maybe i'm not enought of a member of this community to understand.
There's many things i'd say are wrong with the entry now, but particularly the mention of Not Breathing. I like their music alot, but i've never heard anybody group them as breakcore. //listen to the minotaur disk
I'd say at least revert back to the version of Dec 25th.
Breakcore is not what they say it is here. I am a friend of the australian artists, crews and labels...we have tried to post info on here about australian acts.... every single day they get deleted.
and by who? and why? by saskrotch mcnasty....because he can't handle, some other ppl, who he dosn't know, have already been making this music for many years before his arrogant ass even realised what it was.
every single fucking time I mention australian breakcore.... system corrupt, bloody fist, painfree foundsound, 8 bit recordings, killing sheep records..... it gets deleted that day.... every fucking time for 1 year now....
saskrotch, you can delete us on wikipedia...you can write your own american history on this music....but you can't change the fact that we made this stuff when u were in nappies you sad little poser.
Now, because u have gone out of your way to vigilantly deny my friends their part in history, I am going to deny you yours.... anyone that has read this breakcore definition prior to MY EDITS has been misled. It is a skewed and totally pro american breakcore history....and the funniest part of it all, is IT used to say: "saskrotch mcnasty" is an originator.....BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
INCLUDE US OR I will delee your bogus american breakcore every day as u did to ours.
SASKROTCH :::::: YOU CAN't change history....but being american I geuss u think u can pretend?
I saw that the entry for atomly linked here, so I checked it out and saw the state of disarray. I made an effort clean it up a bit, make it more accurate and make it a lot more legible. -- atomly
wello... i edited out mcnastys stuff :\ - timeheater
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This of course is an inevitable problem with an open site like wikipedia. On one hand, all history is subjective and people are going to tend to write about what they know. On the other hand, it's pretty ill to remove something that is by concensus definitely related. I think the current entry isn't perfect, but its inclusive. The australian stuff is definitely important to the history of it.
- cutups, july 15, 2005
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i hate it when every other day some netlabel or label/guy with one release inserts his name here. most likely on top of the list. i hope i am not the only one who thinks we should agree on some relevant labels, sites... since this thing is an encyclopedia and not some advertising blackboard. i think a decent back catalogue needs to be there to be added as a label for example.
geroyche, no i did not add myself ;)
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[edit] Toronto
ok, an anonymous editor changed my addition of Toronto from the list, on the reasoning that "it wasn't an early player in Breakcore". We're not talking about "early Breakcore", we're talking about Breakcore overall. As Toronto is a major player no with knifehandchop and belladonnakillz being from there, I think it should be added. If it gets removed by another anonymous editor, I'm just going to add it again if no entry is made for discussion on the talk page. Feel free to add your 2 cents here. --Threatis 23:44, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
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the sentence tries to sum up key locations for the origin of breakcore. i think its fair to delete toronto.
geroyche
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Toronto is definitely not a influential or original city in regards to Breakcore. I would say it is a hub of 'breakcore' activity in North America.
Skeeter
Yeah, its true. We didn't start shit. We have some weird NES/IDM/Breaks shit here sometimes, but theres a lot of guests and it's nothing crucial. VSnares cancelled on us...we couldn't find a good venue in time. -Gates
[edit] Breakcore Gives Me Wood
I would like to ad Breakcore Gives Me Wood in the list of important early players in Europe (Ambush, Praxis, DHR and others in Europe). Ghent is already mentioned in the list of notable places and this is only because Wood is from there. They have in my opinion done a lot for the music and the partyscene here in Europe, especialy in Belgium. Any opinions on this? -- psi36 06:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
I am droon from breakcore gives me wood and if we are "the only reason why ghent is in there" how come we only throw one party every 2-3 months and there's a breakcore night every weekend in ghent? nono, there's at least 6-7 crews active here, that what makes ghent special.
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this article has got several historical errors in it and also sounds downright CHEESEY at parts especially "Breakcore related artists tend to bunch together and form labels among their friends." Starting a record label with your friends isn't exclusive to "breakcore". It tends to happen among all sorts of independant music styles and labels.
-someonewhoknows
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[edit] Moved from article
The lists in this article were too long. I've trimmed them down and moved the rest here, leaving the most notable (in my opinion) artists and labels.
Note to person above...YOUR OPINION SUCKS!!!! go back to listening to minimal techno or jump on the grime band SUV.
OK, seems to me this list of artsits is becoming waaay to long. I've updated the list above to the one that's on the breakcore page now (14:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)).
Maybe there should be a seperate page (like list of breakcore artists)or even a category with breakcore artists (like Category:Breakcore) and we could slimm down the list on the main Breakcore page...
I've started bystriking out the names I do not think should be on the main list. Most of them I've never heard of. Guess that's a prety bad criterium, that's why I haven't deleted them from the list yet. Since I'm not realy up-to-date with what's happening in the US and Australia, some of these people may have made considerable contributions to "the scene" I don't know of. If so, please do correct me, but preferably ad some comment so other people know why these people should be on the list.
You can strike to text by putting <s> before and </s> after it. Or you can underline stuf by putting <u> before and </u> after it. psi36 14:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I have a feeling I'm making stuff to complicated, but anyway, I've started a seperate list of breakcore artists. Since this here is just a discssion page and the list on the main breakcore article is getting difficult to manage IMO. psi36 14:13, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, i see someone has commented on some of the artists I suggested on removing, whitch is nice, tnx. But the fact remains that this list is too long to be handy. And since there a seperate list of breakcore artists, it would be better to leva only a handfull of realy important names in the list. Problem is ofcourse which names.
Same thing for the record labels, I've moved them all to list of breakcore record labels and i suggest people ad lables there. Then the list on the main breakcore page could also be slimmed down to a handfull..
psi36 21:03, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] (Established) Breakcore artists
- Aaron Spectre aka Drumcorps
- Abelcain aka Davros
- Ambasador 21
Amphetamine VirusAngry Teenagers Who Want To Kill People- Aphasic
- Atomly
- Axiome
- Babylon Disco
- Baseck
Benn Jordanaka flashbulb, also makes idm, but the lawnwakes are some of the finest breakcore tracks ever imho. IN.- Bombardier
- Bong-Ra
- Cdatakill
- Chevron
- Christoph Fringeli
David Kristian- Dev/Nul
- DJ 100.000.000
- DJ C
- DJ /Rupture
DJ Ripleyalso spinning the occasional breakcore record, she's deffinatly an eccletisist, doubtfull indeed.- DJ Scotch Egg
- DJ Scud
DJ Tea and MC Cake- Doormouse
- Droon
- Drop The Lime
- Duran Duran Duran aka Ed Flis
EDGEYedgey is a lng time active producer, he's in.- Eiterherd
- Electric Kettle
- End
- Enduser
- Fanny
- FFF
- Geroyche
Gestalt- Hecate
Hobert Europe- I:gor
- Jason Forrest aka Donna Summer
- Kid606
- Knifehandchop
Little Mack- Maruosa big in japan , baby! IN
- Mash Up Soundsystem
- Mimaku Spldat
- Minion
- Mochipet
- OveNaxx
- Parasite
- Patric Catani
- Producer Snafu
Red Ruler- Retrigger
- Richard Devine
- Rotator
- Shitmat
- Sickboy Milkplus
- Skeeter
- Society Suckers
- Somatic Responses
- Stunt Rock
- Terminal11
- Toecutter
Tuareg Geekssounds familian.. dunno.- Venetian Snares
- Xanopticon
- X&trickx&trick has done extensive touring in europe and his liveset is still breakcore i think. he's in. + has a record on his own label and one on suburban trash.
[edit] Breakcore record labels
- Ad Noiseam
- Addict records
- A Klass Records
- Ambush
- Bloody Fist Records (one of the oldest break related underground labels)
- Cavage Records
- Clash Records
- Cock Rock Disco
- Death$ucker Records
- Digital Hardcore Recordings
- DysLEx!C ReSp0nSE
- Hardliner Recordings
- Hymen Records
- Irritant records
- kool.POP
- Low Res Records
- Mirex
- Peace Off
- Praxis Records
- Sublight Records
- Suburban Trash
- System Corrupt
- Sonic Terror
- Widerstand Records
- Zhark International
[edit] Relevant links
- "WTF is breakcore"
- A Klass Records
- Widerstand Node And Records
- Breakcore Gives Me Wood (Parties And Records)
- Bloody Fist Records
- Bug Klinik Records (Belgium)
- System:Corrupt Records
- Phantomnoise Records
- Ad Noiseam Records
- DySLeXIc REsPonSE Enemas
- Mirex
- Cockrockdisco
- Digital Hardcore Recordings (DHR)
- Sublight Records
- Reduced Phat Records
- Widerstand Record and Politics (AT)
- BREAK POP RECORDS
- Addict Records
- MASH Records (BE)
- Toxic Dancehall (Bristol, UK)
- BREAKCORE.DK
- sickmode networks
Hagbard Celine 11:32, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
I think your selections of "Notable" artists are somewhat ignorant, no offense. You dropped off some of the key artists/labels in the history of the genre and put some "newcomers" on that really haven't done nearly as much for breakcore. It's definitely informed by an outisder's view of breakcore, probably from somebody who came to breakcore in the last few years.
Enduser is a close, personal friend of mine and I still think the idea of having him on a "Notable artists" list in lieu of, for example, Christoph Fringeli, is absolutely ridiculous. unsigned comment by User:24.7.203.75
- Ok, so why don't you just update the list to your liking? By the way, notability is not a measure of who's "done much for breakcore". Enduser is notable because he's been released on Rephlex which compared to most of these labels is a notable label. Hagbard Celine 16:58, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
man, this is a disaster, the 3 only labels you left up there are a joke. none of them are pure breakcore labels, to say they are just cashing in on breakcore may be a bit harsh, but these 3 lables are an offense to all the label owners that took huge chanses with beginning artists and built this scene up from the ground. really, to put µ, tb6 and sublight on there and not AT LEAST addict and peace off and praxis, means you are a tourist that has no idea what he's talking about. i vote this to be the worst ever edit of the breakcore article, i think you should see the error of your ways and put back the comprehensive of lables and artists yourself. so that people can make up their own minds about who's important. if becoming signed by rephlex is what makes a breakcore artist worthwhile, we migh aswell all pack our bags, fucking rephlex. *cough*dinosaur*cough* signed: droon of breakcore gives me wood.
u r right droon. I say we take this boat all the way down... its been sinkin' fer a long time already! Fuckem' ALLL!
i changed it back to the way it was, not a really a fuck em all attitude i'm afraid. i do vote a motion of distust on this hagbard celine dude/gal. he's got journalist attitudes. i hate journalists and reviewers; at least the 95% that can't be bothered to actually go check out a night of the music they claim to like and still ask me wether duran³ and ds/js are the same person. the same 95% that claims to know what breakcore is coz they're listening to a free vsnares promo CD twice while writing a review.
[edit] breakcomments
we must ask ourselves: who is this article for, and what is its purpose?
i believe the purpose of this article is to disseminatie information on breakcore artists, and ideals. i believe this includes signed as well as unsigned artists. i feel that this article should be maintained both as a definition and intro for newbies, as well as a valuable resource for the breakcore community.
so again, the question differently: should this page be kept more 'pure' with only information about established artists and labels or should we allow everyone to add information about thier music project/record label/record distro?
what does everyone think about all the lists of artists and labels etc moved to subpages for readability?
Notsleeping 01:28, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
right now, the list is pretty much free of non-values, it's manageble in size and doesn't hinder readability coz it's on the bottom. s what's the problem?
ah nada, the bottom of the page was kinda overblown for a while
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I still think the lists at the bottom should be slimmed down to a hadfull of artists and labels, the ones that realy stand out. I think for the moment it's still to long.
It should serve as a basis for people who don't know the style to get an idea of the most important artists and labels IMO. Problem is deceiding whitch artists and labels that are. I don't realy feel up to it. But maybe the list higher up on this discussion page could serve as a basis and people shoud strikout the artists and labels they think should/shouldn't be on the main breakcore page. It would also help to put your name behind these comments, would make it easier to discuss. psi36 10:11, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Points of Generation
Not to be a jerk, but I removed several cities form the list. I left Berlin, London, Rennes, Newcastle, Minneapolis, Milwaukee and Winnipeg. The other cities all had important people in Breakcore, but I would say that these were the main, important cities in the early years of Breakcore (up to about 2000 or 2001).
My justifcations:
- Berlin: Home of DHR, Alec Empire, Force Inc, etc.
- London: Home of Ambush, DJ Scud, etc.
- France: Home of Toolbox, Cavage, Hangares Liquides, etc.
- Newcastle: Bloody Fist
- Minneapolis: History of the futurE, Let it Be, Bombardier, etc.
- Milwaukee: Massive Records, Addict, Distort, Crippled Children, WTW, countless barn parties, etc.
- Winnipeg: Fishead did more for breakcore than anybody could imagine. Throw in Snares, Fanny, etc..
I could understand removing Minneapolis and Winnipeg.
The main cities, honestly, in the history of breakcore: Berlin, London, Newcastle and Milwaukee. Even the people from Winnipeg, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Minneapolis and so on basically made countless trips to Milwaukee for the WTW parties. Minneapolis was home to History of the futurE, the primary breakcore distributor in the US during the early years, but Massive Records and the barn in East Troy were by far the most important physical locations for breakcore.
- I believe Ghent should be in this. It is the European breakcore epicentre today, and has been for a while. 213.219.140.231 15:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Ghent is important, but was not a "point of generation," which is what that paragraph is about. Feel free to add another paragraph about the state of breakcore today, I guess, though I feel like that would be a slippery slope where everybody adds their hometown to the list.
[edit] Breakcore In Vietnam
Hi! Are there any breakcore or IDM artists in Vietnam? Thanks. 82.209.208.184 11:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
There were some notable artists such as BangDroop, Nguyen The Equalizer and ThanThunk, but they were pushed aside in favour of indigenous folk after the fall of Saigon.
- Thank you! -- 82.209.211.33 16:17, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- Err, i haven't found these thingies on internet, maybe you have their mp3s? -- 82.209.211.116 20:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
i heard a cd by breakouts ghost and am interested in similar music ... would you all consider him breakcore?
[edit] Suggestions for Changes and Updates
I think there are a number of changes that could make this entry more useful to people, be more accurate, and take on a better tone. As of right now, the overall feel seems a bit haphazard.
- In the first paragraph, the second sentence seems redundant, as the first sentence already mentions that the style is loosly defined. I could still be useful to draw the punk parallel, but i think there's a better way to phrase it. I don't have the exact verbiage right now. Some thoughts that could be included: common do-it yourself ideal. orientation towards live acts (as opposed to djs, which is contrary to most other electronic dance music). the fact that it's just generally intense, often nihilistic music.
- In the second paragraph, I would modify the first sentence to say that it emerged as an offshoot of hardcore techno. I think that is implied but not stated as clearly as it could be. I think some parts of the description of how it was a reaction to older forms of hardcore could be editted because they seem cluttered. We could probably remove the 909 and 303 part and just say "...staleness of the drum machine based sounds...". The sentence about taking jungle a step further makes sense, but the acid house part seems irrelevant. I think people were far beyond mutating acid house at that point. The mention that the primary means of marketing and distribution being the web seems irrelevant. I would argue that this applies to all music these days. I think something could be written about how breakcore grew at the time of the explosion of net communication, and you could argue that it is more inextricably tied to the net than older styles.
Some ideas that could be added or expanded: the "laptop rock" element of breakcore. the high ratio of live acts to djs (or just the large amount of live acts in general). the online communities that are linked - c8 would be my best example. more detailed annecdotal descriptions of artists who are labeled as breakcore that demonstrate the diversity of the sound (ie: enduser's incorporation of desi / indian music as well as forrays into intense drum and bass; somatic responses electro influenced psychedelic hardcore; shitmat's re-sampled gabber mash-up and tounge in cheek ragga flavor).
This is all up for debate / consideration of course. Just some thoughts.
[edit] over editing
this article has been cleansed of any actual information because of 'controversy'?
look at the article a year ago, it may have had some contention, but it's got LINKS TO INFORMATION
the entry is just useless now. it's got more fucking music genre boxes than content. durrrrrrrrrrrrr —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.168.143.104 (talk) 00:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC).
- Hello. Please sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~), and please do not remove the "unsigned" signatures added by others. For more on talk page etiquette, see talk page guidelines. -- intgr 00:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
What's going on here? - This article is getting worse and worse, even the artist list has been cleansed of lots of important people, instead leaving Snafu f.e....? Why not change all that back to the version of one year ago, with minor updates maybe ? 84.154.53.176 09:48, 28 February 2007 (UTC)deathsitcom
