Talk:Buddy Guy

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Contents 1 Needs work 2 NPOV 3 Copyvio? 4 Overhaul needed 5 Jimi Hendrix? 6 Greatest guitarist labels 7 Power trios 8 Discography? 9 Influences 10 Picture at the top 11 Trivia

[edit] Needs work

There is a lot of information in this article, and it needs a lot of work! Please pitch in! — Linnwood 19:48, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

I personally am a great fan of Buddy Guy, but this article is very fanboyish. The whole article needs editing to make it neutral. — Linnwood 20:00, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You're right; as much as I love his playing, the POV is pervasive. I don't even know where to begin; it's integrated with decent information. We'll have to work together on this one. Deltabeignet 20:27, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

• I've begun the NPOV-ing; it's slow going. A lot of section just need wholesale deletion. Deltabeignet 20:43, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

I disagree.

I recently discovered Buddy Guy after finally seeing his show. I had heard stuff about him but was blown away and wanted to find out more. This is the best info I found on the Net. I hope you guys can add real value to this article, instead of being anal editors. Remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Other editors would like it.

Carlos —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.155.150.194 (talk • contribs) 19:05, June 29, 2005 (UTC)

• I'd argue that being fanboyish in a page about a guitarist, especially an influential blues artist, isn't much of a problem, unless there's actual falsehoods, or misquotations. Is there wrong information in this article? Apol0gies 2 July 2005 07:33 (UTC)

• I disagree. One can be fanboyish on a fan site, not in an encyclopedia. Besides, the way of presenting information is nearly as important as the information itself. Phrases like "Unfortunately, ....", "Happily, ..." oblige the reader to read the article in a certain way. Although objectivity / neutrality is an utopy, we can aim for it. Please keep up the good work making this thing better! Fred (131.211.199.25 6 July 2005 09:24 (UTC))

• Let’s get some perspective here, not "utopy." The big picture: The original article (a near copy of which is in the Artistopia link below) was 95 to 99% excellent, especially in information. About 1 to 5% of the original article could have used editing to conform it to the subjective standards here or to enhance it further. Anything more than 5% was unnecessary (there's always someone who doesn't like something). In other words, the whole article was generally excellent, and just needed minor refining. The author should be congratulated for taking the time to make this valuable contribution to Wikipedia. Researching and writing the article is the difficult part; the editing is relatively easier to do if the editor is proficient. However, some “editors” have chosen to make a mountain out of a molehill, instead of quietly doing the minor editing required. In consequence, the casual reader is given the false impression that there was something severely wrong with the original article, when he reads the critical comments preceding the article and a few subjective criticisms on this discussion page. For example, a criticism such as “very fanboyish” is not neutral or balanced. It’s a loaded comment that influences the casual reader to perceive and evaluate the whole article in a certain way – as a “very fanboyish” article (as Carlos wisely pointed out – other editors might not have jumped to the conclusion that it is “fanboyish”). Most of the professional editors I’ve worked with (I’ve published with McGraw Hill, John Wiley and Jossey Bass) are careful not to draw excessive attention to the editing. In other words, effective editors are not "very fanboyish" about the editing process. Indeed, a few of the edits have actually made the article worse. It's possible the editor's POV got affected the editing. So the original author needs to clean up the editing once the editors have finished their editing. Finally, objectivity/neutrality is overrated – the most manipulative or biased articles can be written to sound “neutral;” there are several such articles in Wikipedia if you read carefully. Tony, September 18, 2005

Film link below shows what Guy's about, History accessed from main article has earlier edits. The late March articles are better about this artist. Too much edits later. Carlos, Fred & Tony have a point. Irene N. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.195.149 (talk • contribs) 06:42, October 1, 2005 (UTC)

Minor changes made to neutralize. Wanka 03:36, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The NPOV tag should be removed IMO, this article is dead on 100 percent. Just listen to Buddy's peers and you will realize its not fanboy fodder but the truth —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.100.214.69 (talk • contribs) 23:31, December 22, 2005 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. I just saw him for the first time last night, and I have never been so entranced in a concert. I could see how it might be a little tough to accept this extreme level of positivity about an artist, but I think that once you've seen him play live you understand. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.9.132.21 (talk • contribs) 17:40, March 5, 2006 (UTC)

• Could you leave out the **white** english guitar player? How about just English guitar players. Man people are people human beings. All things are in Christ Jesus. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.110.83.114 (talk • contribs) 21:52, February 2, 2006 (UTC)

Could you leave out the Christ Jesus bit? I think it's entirely appropriate to distinguish between black and white guitarists in that era because it was the influence of one on the other that brought this music to white audiences. Let's keep the religious revisionism to a minimum. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.9.132.21 (talk • contribs) 17:40, March 5, 2006 (UTC)

• That thing he wrote about British musicians eager to soak it up, repackage it, and turned around to sell it to american audiences as the 'hip new thing' seems pretty unfair. Yes there were many bands ifluenced by Buddy Guy, but I wouldn't say Jimi Hendrix or Cream 'repackaged' Buddy Guy's music. He wasn't the only influence on their music. They put out their own sounds, not repackaged covers of Buddy Guy songs. That one could be edited. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.110.83.114 (talk • contribs) 21:52, February 2, 2006 (UTC)

• This hasn't been updated in a while, should a NPOV tag be removed? mrholybrain 12:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
• Man this Article is a MESS!!!!!!! This is article is definatly not in a NPOV. I would practicly suggest a complete startover. Littlewing1 17:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio?

Are the main sections of this a copyvio? I only read a little bit, but it sounded like something copied from a different website. A good indicator is the lack of wikification. Any ideas? --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 16:00, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

This looks like the source. http://www.artistopia.com/Music-Artists/Pros/Bio.asp?ID=826&Name=Buddy%20Guy Spalding 23:44, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

• The above assumptions are wrong. It is the other way around. The Artistopia article that Spalding assumes is the original source is actually a near complete copy of the original, unadulterated article that was first published here in early March. The only differences are that the Artistopia article has missed or changed a few grammatical marks, and misses most of the photos and links in the original. This is probably a result of artistopia’s copying process (these should have been clues that the artistopia article is a copy). Another obvious clue should have been the info at the bottom: “Bio information by A Wikimedia project.” So it’s apparent that some posters' opinions/criticisms (also see below about Hendrix) are based on mistaken assumptions and opinions. If they make edits, they might adulterate the original article with their POV without realizing it.

• Another recent article that's probably based on the original article that was here: Buddy Guy Live At The Rib America Festival - Indianapolis [http://www.musicpix.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=115

• Btw, sample song clips of Buddy Guy's new album are on his record label site [1] -- it gives an idea of the broad scope of this 70-year old singer-guitarist, and what he might have been capable of doing in the 1960s. Also click on the Buddy Guy film clip of a live performance in the 1980s [2]. There are many sides to Guy's versatile showmanship, and that's one of them. Tony, September 18, 2005

[edit] Overhaul needed

I've seen Buddy Guy a million times, and I've never seen him do anything with drumsticks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Juke (talk • contribs) 15:26, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

• The drumstick trick is a regular part of his show. He holds the drumstick in his right hand, rather like a pen, and uses it to strike the strings by the pickups while he continues to finger the strings with his left hand. Here is a picture --Bluesified 13:39, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

• That picture's pretty old; note the full jheri curl. It may have happened once. Have you personally seen Buddy Guy do this? I don't think we can call it a "regular part" of his show. I have never seen him do it. More common in his shows are his imitations of rock stars. "I can play Stevie Ray Vaughan"; "I can play Eric Clapton" etc. He does this quite often. He also has a habit of starting a song, but not finishing it, or transitioning into a different song. These actions are much more characteristic of his "regular show." Also more characteristic is his admonishment to the crowd to "Shut the fuck up" and his statement that he's going to "get so funk you can smell it." - juke 14:58, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

• I've seen Buddy Guy do the 'drumstick trick' both times I've seen him in concert. Regarding the photo, it was the best one I could find. If you have another I would be open to changing it to a more recent photo. — Linnwood 23:40, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
• I live in Chicago, and see Buddy Guy every year at his bar. EVERY show I've seen, he does the drumstick trick. He also regularly plays the guitar behind his back, with his teeth, and will even walk outside of his bar and entertain passerby's by using a wireless. He lets women in the audience fingerpick his guitar while he rumbles his fingers on the neck (I got a few photos of this). His bar used to have an adult book shop next to it, and he regularly went next door during his show to jokingly look at the adult magazine covers. The drumstick trick is only one of many that he does, but I might be tempted to say it's more regular in small crowds. Krickert 12:12, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

• If I may put this topic to bed, I saw Buddy Guy in concert 2 days ago (Oct. 9, 2005) and he played guitar with a drumstick (as well as with his teeth, behind his head, etc.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.126.121.67 (talk • contribs) 12:35, October 11, 2005 (UTC)

I just saw Buddy Guy last night (10/17/05 in Tallahassee Florida) and he did the thing with the drumsticks. It seems silly to me that any one person could claim to know what is and is not a regular part of the show, unless they were some sort of roadie/groupie. ~ Chris P. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.186.109.14 (talk • contribs) 11:18, October 18, 2005 (UTC)

• Buddy has an entire bag of tricks (Behind-the-head, teeth-playing, one-handed fretting, someone else strumming while he frets, etc.) and does not always use each trick every performance. The last three performances I saw, he seemed to be trying to fit every trick in and it quickly became a farce--not an enjoyable show at all. Hopefully, he will go back to the more tasteful form he had in the early 90's, where he left us wanting more. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.169.189.225 (talk • contribs) 10:39, February 23, 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jimi Hendrix?

I'm doubting that Buddy Guy was any influence on Jimi Hendrix. The timeline doesn't seem to fit. Hendrix died in 1970, before Guy had any kind of national prominence. Does anyone have verification on this? In the 1960s, Buddy's style was more like BB King's Or Magic Sam's than anyone else's. He really didn't cut loose with rock-style pyrotechnics until his 1991 Silvertone CD, Damn Right I've Got the Blues. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Juke (talk • contribs) 15:32, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

• This rumor has been around for some time, and I have heard and read it from a number of reputable sources. I think it is also refernced in the Buddy Guy Biography "Damn Right I've Got The Blues".

The time is credible:

"At a time when Guy's tone was so volume-drunk and raging with distortion, his performances so antic, that he was inspiring his fan Jimi Hendrix to adopt a similar approach, Guy's producers made him turn down and mellow out in the studio. They were men who made and sold blues records, and they didn't know what to make of the noise that came from Guy's speakers-as far as they were concerned, it wasn't blues. Not until Chess heard the Hendrix Experience and Cream, and saw those groups tearing up the album charts, did he understand his mistake in not letting Buddy Guy be himself." Guitar Word

Keep in mind that Buddy has been playing for a LONG time, and that for much of his early career which Chess Records he was encouraged to 'tame' his flamboyant style because they thought it would not sell. --Bluesified 14:15, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

How would Jimi Hendrix have heard Buddy Guy do this? His first recordings with Artistic and Cobra did not exhibit this over-the-top style. Is there any evidence that Hendrix saw Buddy Guy perform in person? — Juke 14:54, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

The Jimi Hendrix Foundation says that Jimi took a tape recorder to a Buddy Guy show in England. --garcia3441 21:00, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

• Some facts to clear the assumptions in some comments. First, Hendrix's family has repeatedly noted Buddy Guy's influence on Jimi Hendrix (see jimi hendrix website). Second, the Martin Scorsese blues concert movie "Lightning In A Bottle" shows a film clip of Jimmy Hendrix in the audience grooving to Buddy Guy's crazy stage performance (probably 1968). Third, you can see a similar clip (this time Hendrix is filming another Guy live performance) shown in Buddy Guy's Legends club in Chicago. Fourth, if you see the movie "Festival Express" [3] originally filmed in 1970, you'll see another spirited Buddy Guy live performance (as well as performances by Grateful Dead, The Band and Janis Joplin). In the 1960s, Buddy's studio recordings were muted compared to his stage performances. Chess told him to tone it down, and used him to support other artists such as Muddy Waters and Howlin Wolf. Buddy's more "rock-oriented" playing was finally captured on his 1980 "Stone Crazy" album (Alligator [4] ), a studio album that was recorded impromptu in less than one day on the road in Europe. His 1991 "Damn Right" album is tame in comparison. Guy's JSP label recordings at that time ("D.J. Play My Blues" and perhaps "Breaking Out") also have a few "heavy" songs. Also, you might find a few bits of Buddy's heavier styles in other non-Chess recordings before 1980, if you listen carefully. Buddy Guy was a musician's musician known mostly to artists who were able to appreciate his different approaches. Some of the best rock and other guitarists heard about him through the grapevine, learned a few lessons from him and then made it popular music. It's a pity we don't know more about ground-breaking artists such as Buddy Guy and many others. Some critics, who expect a one-dimensional artost, may not be able to appreciate an eclectic artist like Guy. Tony, September 14, 2005

Yes he was a major infulence on Jimi Hendrix and without him Hendrix wouldn't have gotten famous. Before either of them were famous they were in a band called Hank Ballard and the Midnighters which intrestingly enough this band's history never gets told correctly. I have a friend who knew buddy guy long before he got famous and has a 1970s article about the original Hank Ballard and the Midnighters, which tells about Jimi Hendrix before the band ever produced a record. People say Henedrix Taught himself to play and for the most part he did, but buddy guy taught him to play the guitar on his back and all the ways Hendrix played guitar. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Person7 (talk • contribs) 19:03, October 13, 2005 (UTC)

What is this nonsense about "the original Hank Ballard and the Midnighters, which tells about Jimi Hendrix before the band ever produced a record"? Their most famous hit, the scandalous "Work With Me Annie", was recorded in 1954, when Hendrix was an eleven-year-old schoolboy in Seattle. -- dharley —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.224.50.104 (talk • contribs) 14:28, February 11, 2006 (UTC)

• Buddy Guy's influence on Jimi Hendrix was clearly obvious to the top guitarists. In 1966, when the then-unknown Hendrix jammed with Cream on stage for the very first time, Eric Clapton remembers "I thought, 'My God, this is like Buddy Guy on acid.' " (see link below). Buddy's influence extended beyond the showmanship. For Hendrix, Clapton, Jeff Beck and other guitarists, Buddy Guy streched the boundaries of how the electric guitar could be played (solos, loudness, distortion, phrasing, etc.) Regardless, I believe Jimi Hendrix was so talented that he probably would have become famous even without Buddy's influence. But Hendrix would have sounded and performed a bit differently without Buddy's influence. Hendrix was self taught and had a very wide range of influences, not just Buddy Guy. He did listen to Buddy's muted 1960s studio recordings and saw his live shows even before first meeting Buddy in 1967 or 68. Rollingstone article on Jimi Hendrix. Buddy Guy talks about his meeting Hendrix in this recent audio interview; a live jam follows at about the 16 minute mark. BTW, someone included Rollingstone's controversial list of 100 Greatest Guitar Players in the main article. Guitar blogs have been tearing that RS list apart. RS is not the most competent source for such a list. It is better to use a guitar magazine ranking such as Guitar.com's list below, but even that has its limitations. It's even better to get the professional opinion of the world's top guitarists on who they think are the best guitarists. Several such comments about Buddy Guy are included in the main article. Guitar.com list of top 100 players of all time. Tony, 13:17, October 16, 2005 (UTC)

• You don't need to doubt [Buddy Guy's influence]. Jimi Hendrix had many musical influences, read the liner notes of his Blues cd. Muddy Waters, Elmore James, Yes, and Buddy Guy. Jimi Hendrix loved the blues, it's true that he was influenced by buddy guy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.110.83.114 (talk • contribs) 21:41, February 2, 2006 (UTC)

• Watch the movie "Lightning in a Bottle": It includes film footage of Hendrix watching a Guy concert from the front row. That night, Hendrix had blown off a show he had been scheduled to perform that night, so he could catch Guy live. To question that Hendrix was profoundly influenced by Buddy Guy is ludicrous. -- Donald Joseph (13:19, February 11, 2006 69.118.141.120)

• Hendrix was influenced by Guy directly (through observation) and indirectly (reputation, anecdotes). Also, although Guy did not receive a large amount of national prominence before Hendrix's death, within the "guitar community" Guy was a well-known quantity (much like Eric Johnson, Jimmie Vaughan and Billy Gibbons were well known by guitarists and musicians years before any national prominence was given to them). Mr. Guy didn't get to showcase his "pyrotechnics" on record very much before "Stone Crazy", due to the limitations the Chess label put on him...but his live performances were full displays of what we now consider "Hendrixian". ~Screamin' Armadillo (10:35, February 23, 2006 198.169.189.225)

• I read a recent article in Rolling Stone in which he recounted that he would "buy weed for eric and jimi and when they passed out take their groupies back to my dressing room" or something like that. i'm not an expert or even a fan really, but that article gave the impression that he had a pretty decent impact on hendrix' generation of performers. Joeyramoney 03:56, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greatest guitarist labels

I'm a great admirer of Buddy Guy but I do agree that this article is not in keeping with what Wikipedia should be. Anything written in encyclopedic form should be just that encyclopedic. This article, however, sounds more like something written by the Buddy Guy fan club. I also think it's wrong labelling any guitarist as the best, greatest and so on. There is no such thing. It's an insult to all the other guitarists who are also very talented and incredibly gifted. January 3, 2006. Peter.

[edit] Power trios

There is such a heinous error on the author's post that I can't take anything else on this article seriously. Explain this: "Buddy guy influenced nearly every power trio" The author than lists Rush and Led Zeppelin as power trios? Well since Rush and Led Zeppelin both had four members...kind of hard to be a power trio. Learn to count or learn what a power trio or don't post articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.131.125.49 (talk • contribs) 07:00, January 23, 2006 (UTC)

- Well, no one should take your comments seriously if don't do your homework (before you show you can count). Both Rush and Led Zeppelin are mentioned in the "power trio" page on wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_trio I guess, if you practice what you preach, you'll won't post any more unsigned comments. Contributors should be adding positive value to the article, not trying to impress on minutia for their ego's sake. Tony, March 10, 2006.

What he means by a power trio is that there was one guitarist, one bassist and one drummer. Robert Plant as a singer didn't affect the musical sound of the group. If they had had another guitarist, or a keyboard player, or if Robert Plant played flute, they wouldn't have been a power trio. Same thing with The Who and Rush. A singer who just sings doesn't lend to the sound of the instrumental music of the group. He is correct in saying that Led Zeppelin was technically a power trio. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.108.29.20 (talk • contribs) 19:16, March 5, 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discography?

Any willing?

See [5] and [6] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.131.125.49 (talk • contribs) 06:59, January 23, 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Influences

For some reason this allegedly "fanboyish" article talks more about how Buddy influenced others than who influenced Buddy at the first place. After all, such guitar showmanships that Guy and Hendrix have performed, go as far back in the blues tradition as Charlie Patton (who probably also got his ideas from somewhere - though about that I don't know). The current version of article has a problem, that it is impossible to avoid getting a picture that the text is written by a person who intends to "maximize" the view about Buddy Guy's influence on other guitarists. After all, to be honest, this kinds of issues are always a bit unclear. See album notes, from Hendrix album Blues, for example, that speak about Buddy & Jimi. They write that Hendrix was more interested in other left handed guitarists and used to ask from Buddy about them. Of course, this is not the whole truth either, but the point is, that text should not look "fanboyish", since this is a dictionary after all. --128.214.205.5 10:24, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

One of Buddy's greatest influences was a blue's man called W C Handy (1873-1958), also know as 'The Father of Blues'. He also influenced Eric Clapton, Johnny Winter, Jeff Beck, and Jimmy Page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.9.98.103 (talk • contribs) 04:21, May 7, 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture at the top

Could somebody add a picture at the top of the page. I think it is alot better when you see what an article is about at first glance. HichamVanborm 21:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks Anger22! My editing skills are a bit limited.HichamVanborm 15:49, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

Does anyone else think that the John Mayer trivia is out of place and irrelevant? stemperm 19:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

• Absolutely. Mayer fan's been here, clearly. I deleted it. 86.17.211.191 14:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)