Talk:Buffyverse chronology

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-03-01. The result of the discussion was No consensus.

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Contents 1 Blooded 2 BCE 3 Yellow Crayon 4 Reptile Boy 5 something missing 6 Changes in BS1

[edit] Blooded

For some reason, this novel has been set as occuring mid-Season 2 (Dec '97/Jan '98). This is the only Buffy novel I've read, and I distinctly remember multiple references to Angel having recently returned from hell, and all of the Scoobies knowing it. This would place the episode at the very earliest after "The Return" in Season 3.

Also, Willow and Oz are already a couple in this book, while in the show, they weren't officially an item till after Angel went bad. Additionally, Xander and Cordelia had only shared a couple of secret kisses by this point in the series, whereas they're a very open couple in the book. Finally, Buffy mentions her age as being 17, not 16, again setting the continuity after Angel becomes Angelus, then turns back again.

The only part that doesn't quite fit is the multiple references to Willow's unrequited feelings for Xander. Since at this point in the show they were making secret smoochies, that doesn't quite make sense. However, the other factors I noted seem to overwhelmingly suggest that this episode fits after "The Return," when Angel was back and everyone knew it, and before "Lovers Walk," when Xander and Cordelia break up.

Thus, I'm now moving this episode to the Season 3 continuity. If anyone has any questions or evidence that I overlooked, I'm willing to hear them. -- TOM-H-CRGL3 23:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I've read this book (several years ago) and I have had a quick glimpses of it pages just now. I'm pretty sure Topping's guide places it mid-Season 2 (unfortunely I can't find my older edition of his book, "Slayer" which reviews many novels and suggests where they might fit in the timeline), of course the novels that were written during the production of the series rarely fit continuity fully. I'm pretty sure that they chose to ignore Angel going evil, therfore allowed Buffy to be 17, allowed Oz/Willow Cordy/Xander couplaeages. Also this book was published August 1998, a month before third season premiere, "Anne" had even aired, and was probably written months before Season 2 had even finished. Do you have a page number where any a character, specifically mentions Angel returning from Hell? -- Paxomen 15:10, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, I no longer have the book; I borrowed it from a friend. I took it that the authors wrote the book to be "up to date" with Season 3 when it was released, thus had Angel back from hell, but didn't know about the other changes that Season 3 would bring, thus causing all the continuity problems. Still, it seems that sticking it in mid-Season 2 causes more problems than the other way around. Nonetheless, if an official guide lists it as fitting elsewhere in the continuity, then you're right, we probably ought to go by the official guide instead. Thanks for your observations. -- TOM-H-CRGL3 22:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Topping's guides are brilliant, but are not official. However it maybe better to use these guides, or clear markers in the text rather than giving too much interpretation. Its possible that Topping was wrong and Golden and Holder were writing a book set in a third season they knew almost nothing about (Angel didn't return from Hell until "Faith, Hope, and Trick" first aired October 13th 1998). But it maybe that even the TV writers did not know exactly how a third season would be in summer 1998 and earlier. Given the August publication date, and the time for planning the story, writing the novel, copyediting, printing and publishing, I wouldn't be surprised if the story was planned before Angel even went evil ("Innocence" first aired January 20, 1998), and then wrote it during the second half of the second season. They then could have chosen not to get too entangled into complicated continuity by simply ignoring the fact that Angel went bad. However I would be interested to find out where it is set according to Golden/Holder. I will try emailing one of them and asking them during next few weeks? Golden recently said actually, "the novels have always had their own continuity which is not the same as, but is parallel to and as similar as possible to the official continuity." (Mata, Shiai, "CHRISTOPHER GOLDEN INTERVIEW 2", SlayerLit.us 2007). I understand what you mean, it would seem that Angel going bad is a fairly significant part of the offficial continuity.

Thanks for contributing toward the chronology and I encourage anyone to get involved if they find sources (or from the sources themselves) that items are out of place, but do bear in mind that the comics and novels rarely completely mesh with official continuity, and many delibarately avoid becoming entangled in the ongoing arcs. -- Paxomen 01:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BCE

I like this article. But I changed "Before the Christian Era" to "Before the Common Era". That's what "BCE" technically stands for in the current standard practice of history. - Che Nuevara: Join the Revolution 19:02, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Makes sense :) -- Paxomen 13:55, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I wish that all of Wikipedia would use BCE and CE instead of BC and AD. But we'll never get most people to recognize them. - Che Nuevara: ^{Join the Revolution} 12:15, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't see why it needs to be changed from BC/AD to BCE/CE anyway, but that's a different issue. --Allycat (Talk - Contribs) 20:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yellow Crayon

The chronology says that Willow breaks a yellow crayon in 1987. However in the episode Grave it is said she broke it the first day of kindergarten. If kindergarten starts at the fifth year and Willow was born in 1980 (which her wikipedia article says), it would conclude logically that she broke the crayon in 1985. --Allycat (Talk - Contribs) 20:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, seems that 1987 is too late for crayon breakage (and I have changed it to 1985). And to be in the same academic year as Buffy she would have had to be born in 1980/1981 however do we have a canon source that confirms the DoB given in the wiki artice, because looking round the web, some pages said it 1980 some said it was unclear whether it was 1980 or 1981, and some even 1982? Is there some canon confirmation she was born in 1980 as opposed to 1981? -- Paxomen 21:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reptile Boy

In Reptile Boy, one of the frat boys says "[O]n the tenth day of the tenth month he shall be enhungered. And we shall feed him," which indicates that this episode takes place on October 10. Also, there is the following exchange between Willow and Giles:

Willow: You mean, like, if there're others? Brittany Oswald, junior at St. Michael's, disappeared a year ago. So did Kelly Percell, sophomore at Grant.

Giles: A year.

Willow: Almost to the day.

Giles: An anniversary or perhaps some other event significant to the killer.

So how do we feel about changing the dae of this episode to October 10, 1997? Theshibboleth 22:59, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Done. And I think we see three previous nights too, so I've added it as the 7th to the 10th.--Nalvage 08:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] something missing

What, no flashbacks?! I was rather hoping this article would give some of Angel's biography in the Victorian period. —Tamfang 06:47, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Right now they're all on the Buffyverse chronology (3) page. --Nalvage 14:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes in BS1

I have done a couple of changes in BS1 chronology:

The book "Halloween Rain" features a chewed on Zombie resembling Principal Flutie. Because of this I have moved the book to after the episode "The Pack". In the Book "Night of the Living Rerun" Buffy knows about Angel being a vampire. Because of this I have moved the book to after the episode "Angel". I have also changed the date for the episodes "Nightmares" and "Out of Mind, Out of Sight" as taking place spring 1997 as in "Nightmares", Buffy's gravestone say 1981-1997.

Please let me know if you disagree (or agree) with these changes. - Anders s 13:24, 17 March 2007 (UTC)