Talk:Camp David Accords
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[edit] Requested move
| Proposal : | Camp David Accords → Camp David Accords |
| Rationale : | Disambiguation not required? |
| Proposer : | David Kernow 00:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC) |
[edit] Survey and discussion
Please add * Support or * Oppose followed by a brief explanation, then sign your vote using "~~~~".
- Support as nom. David Kernow 00:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Support - unless of course anyone can think of an example of other known Camp David Accords. --TheMightyQuill 13:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
- Support --Aldux 16:51, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
- Moved, of course. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 07:05, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] (Judea and Samaria)
I think it is confusing to include reference to Judea and Samaria in this article. In political parlance the term West Bank is more widely used and more clear, especially in contexts like this. I am going to clean up that part of the article, therefore.
- OK, but who the heck are you? IZAK 04:43, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
- *lol*...Sorry for the spam, but your remark is simply hilarious, IZAK. Vargher 23:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Nobel price
Just a small detail: The articel completley forgets the fact that both Sadat and Begin were awarded the Nobel Peace Price for their efforts, negotiations and the final Egyptian-Israeli peace accord... Egyptian school books for example always point out with a certain pride that "Sadat was awarded the price" and not "Sadat AND Begin", so it would be good to point that out as well.
[edit] Saddam Hussein
The brief, two sentence biography of Saddam Hussein doesn't seem appropriate for this article. It seems to imply that Hussein's power struggles were "consequences" of the Camp David Accords; as if the Camp David Accords started a snowball effect ending in "the toppling of [Saddam's] regime in 2003." This is a dubious assertation, even if it is indirectly implied. I propose we delete the second sentence and keep the first one. --GHcool 20:18, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
No response. OK, I'm deleting it. --GHcool 19:48, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Newest section
The newest section (originally titled "Normalization: The Aftermath," but which I have retitled "Criticism of the Accords") has the feel of original research, but the facts presented seem generally sound. I would like to see some citations, particularly in the two places I marked that they were needed. The one claim that "An additional view is that the Peace agreement was between the Israeli people and Egypt's president Anwar Sadat, rather than with the Egyptian people, who did not necessarily support it in majority." is something I find unlikely. According to Sadat and His Legacy, a collection of essays about the Camp David Accords compiled by the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, the exact opposite seems to be true: that the Accords remain popular with the majority of Egyptians because of the foreign aid it provided and the economic relationship it gained with the Israelis. --GHcool 00:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I sincerely hope you are correct, but I think reality proves otherwise... I have even left out some of the more gruesome elements such as student demonstrations in Cairo and letters from Egyptian professors, both calling for Egypt to renounce the Peace agreements and wage war on Israel (seldom reported in the English media for fear of waking up the western public from its hallucigenic slumber); all this of course while Israeli professors and students protest that the Israeli government isn't making enough concessions to the Palestinians. It seems that the Arab world is the only place on earth (if you count out 1930's Pre-Hitler Germany of course..) where the students and academia are more nationalist and right wing than the Government..!
Firstly, the unpolled opinion of a US Policy institute, as honorable as it may be, is not enough to disrove the facts I mentioned, especially in light of those which I have just found, strengthening my opinion): according to a 2006 poll of 1000 Egyptians taken by the Egyptian government, 92% of Egyptians view Israel as an Enemy nation. The poll was conducted, it must be noted, during the 2006 War between Israel and Hezbullah; but I don't think the Egyptian public is of such weak spine as to turn a 92% majority to a minority over a day, a month or even 10 years... By the way, the poll I mentioned of Israelis supporting the Camp David Accords was in hebrew, so I didn't put in the link... I'll try to find a translated version. Certainly it can be easily found that while there have been many public calls in Egypt for withdrawing from the peace agreements (of course while keeping the Sinai!!) in contrast, I have never heard of any such sentiments in Israel, even from those extreme right wing circles who originally opposed the agreement in the Parliament vote; nor was there any suggestion of withdrawing from the Agreements mentioned in any Israeli election manifesto of any Israeli party; from this, one can assume that the Peace agreement with Egypt has become a national concensus, despite the aforementioned doubts regarding the cost Israel paid.
P.S. Regarding your phrase "that the Accords remain popular with the majority of Egyptians because of the foreign aid it provided and the economic relationship it gained with the Israelis" what is particularly astonishing is that, if my assertion is correct, despite all the economic benefits, development plans and quality of life improvement that the Peace with Israel has brought: suspicion, hatred and rejection of Israel still seems to be the majority sentiment- at least within those Egyptian groups which are "visible" to the polls- i.e. people with easy access to phones, students and city dwellers, which is much more serious, as those are the cultural leaders of Egyptian society. Perhaps the polls don't reflect opinions among villagers (I suspect they didn't take the trouble of finding them) but they tend to be easily swayed by the higher classes, as Nasser always knew how to exploit.
- Interesting analysis, and I agree with some of it, but not all of it. The book by the Washington Institute for Near East Policy I mentioned was not an unpolled opinion, but a collection of essays from serious scholars in the field. I'll see if I can find my copy somewhere and find out exactly what these experts say on this topic.
- As the article stands now, it still needs the citations. Furthermore, even if your assertion that "92% of Egyptians view Israel as an Enemy nation" were true (and I am not saying its not true), this fact is not necessarily a direct counterpoint to the 84% of Israelis who support the Accords. There is still clearly some hostility between the two cultures, even though both countries are economically better off because of the treaties.
- Thirdly, I would prefer that you did not compare present day Egypt with Nazi Germany. I'm no fan of Egypt, but the comparison just isn't fair. --GHcool 02:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
The comparison was not directed against just Egypt, but the whole Arab world, which, I think you will be hard presst to disprove, contains several elements and socio-political trends begging to be compared to that Germany (And I wasn't mentioning or referring to **Nazi** Germany, but to the several years before Hitler became Chancellor (after that time, of course, the Government was always more nationalistic than the Academia)- the period when the majority supporting Fascist ideals was forming in German society and the Pro-Western Weimar Government was powerless in supressing and/or dealing with this. I see that period as reflecting nearly 1:1 what is, sadly, happening in most Arab countries, except those of course which are already led by self confessed fascist leaders. In any case, of course more work is needed here on the citations. There remains the problem of Hebrew sources, many of them just don't exist in English but have interesting data and even news items. I of course try to be as objective as possible in translating them (or at least as objective as I hope someone translating Iranian sources ought to be). In any case, I would be thrilled if you can post reliable data that proves me wrong. It is not just an academic question for me, but an existential one.. to balance these morbid facts somewhat I may add more on the relatively moderate stance of the Egyptian Government (in conflict mediation and at least attempting to combat Islamic extremism), in spite of contradicting the apparent wishes of the Egyptian people.
[edit] New reminiscence from Carter
An interesting reminiscence from Carter about how he convinced Sadat not to pack his bags and leave (in the last paragraphs of the article): http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070121/ap_on_re_us/carter_conference Badagnani 03:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
