Talk:Carpenters (band)
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[edit] Why can't I just read a wikipedia article on Karen ?
This article is a real pain and a load of rubbish. I don't want to know about her brother or the songs they sang. Search for Karen Carpenter and you come here. Huh ?
- Okay, Mr. Hostile. I started a page just about Karen, so you can cool your jets. - Karen Carpenter's Biggest Fan 19:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Japanese text?
What is this text - copied from Edit:Carpenters, and invisible on page:
ja:カーペンターズ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Heenan73 (talk • contribs).
- I think it's a link to the article on the Japanese Wikipedia. JamesMLane 06:12, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Yes, you're right. Ja: refers to Japanese Wikipedia, and the Japanese writing says "Kapentaasu", which means "Carpenters".
[edit] Carpenters v. The Carpenters
On the former Talk page, Heenan73 wrote the following, copied here for convenience:
- In contrast to, say The Beatles, Karen and Richard were always Carpenters - so if you talked about the Carpenters, it would be the not The. So this page should be Carpenters, with a redirect from The Carpenters. Heenan73 14:58, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
My recollection is that they started out as "The Carpenters" but at some point the artist billing on albums was changed to "Carpenters". If that's correct either title would be defensible, though probably "The Carpenters" would be preferable in case there's an article on those guys who build houses. Another reason is that on the website http://www.carpenterarts.org/exhibit.asp (which appears to have at least a semiofficial status, based on Richard Carpenter's support), they're called "The Carpenters" (capital T). A final reason to move it back is that then all those links won't have to be changed. Right now there are many more links to "The Carpenters" than to Carpenters. JamesMLane 06:12, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- They were always 'Carpenters', right back to their first A&M release ('Offering'); links will auto-forward, not perfect, perhaps, but will allow people to find what they seek. And finally, it is surely more important to be right and accurate than go for convenience (let alone the dread 'It's Aways Been This Way!!). Just, as they say, 'my2cents' Heenan73 10:24, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- While researching to respond to your points, I found a new 'official site', http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/ (added to external links) which also supports 'Carpenters'. Cheers, Heenan73 11:03, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
While "Carpenters" is the correct title, the name on the star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, (a few yards from the Kodak theater), is "The Carpenters". The star was issue on Oct. 12, 1983, according to Tony Tay's website.204.80.61.10 13:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)Bennett Turk
In true nerdy fashion, I support the elimination of the definite article from the entry's heading as per record labels and Joel Whitburn's chart books. The definite article is used before their name in speech and in running text, but not in headings and in lists of names. For the record, the following non-definite-article acts are listed correctly in Wikipedia: Pet Shop Boys, Buzzcocks, Spice Girls, Village People, Sex Pistols, Doves, Associates, Bee Gees. Still wrongly including a definite article are [as of 15 Sep 06] Go-Gos, Buggles and Carpenters. No doubt there are others. DavidOPerson 15 September 2006
[edit] Barbie
I seem to remember a controversy in the early 1990s because somebody made a movie about their careers and Karen's death using stop-action Ken and Barbie dolls instead of actors. If anybody knows anything more about this, it should really be in the article. --Christofurio 00:00, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)
- No sooner said than done! I've added a link to a review page, too. And the DVD is available too [1] - I've not added that to the page, as I really do not know the legality - They may have redone the soundtrack. Or Not. Heenan73 10:44, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Previous edits?
What happened to the earlier edits/versions of this article? I wrote about 90% of this (nearly every word except for the penultimate paragraph), but I don't see any indication of those contributions in the page's history. RBrown 02:59, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
In reviewing the recent history of the article, it appears that all of the earlier edits were lost when the article was redirected from "The Carpenters". The cited version from October 15, 2003, was essentially a stub, and not the version that was transferred to the present entry. The subsequent history of additions and edits appears to be lost. RBrown 04:51, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- My guess is that Heenan73 "moved" the article by copying the entire text and cutting and pasting it into this title, instead of using the "Move this page" function from the menu at the left. The latter method would have brought along the edit history. That leaves me with two questions, though. First, why isn't the old history shown at The Carpenters? A proper move would've transferred the edit history along with the text, but a cut-and-paste shouldn't have deleted the edit history. Second, given that the text got here (somehow) on July 18, what was it that Tom moved on July 25, as suggested by his edit summary for the only entry remaining in the edit history at The Carpenters? I'll leave a note for Tom to ask him if he can clarify. JamesMLane 03:45, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
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- All fixed now - history merged. Tom- 13:39, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
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- Thanks. RBrown 01:57, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=622130510713940545&q=karen+carpenter&hl=en Above is a link to Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story -- supposedly the censored "doll-o-mation" account of her success and death.
[edit] Question about lyrics
Why did they put the line "Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near" in both their hit songs We've Only Just Begun and Close To You? Was there a significance or what? Mike H 00:01, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)
- The line appears only in "(They Long to Be) Close To You". It does not appear in "We've Only Just Begun". However, on the Carpenters' hits collection, The Singles: 1969-1973, the duo recorded an intro track that consisted of the opening line of "Close To You" (which you quoted above) followed by an instrumental segue into the album's first selection, "We've Only Just Begun". The intro track was not identified as a separate track on the LP, and that may be the source of your misunderstanding. RBrown 03:50, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Gay Icon Project
In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:15, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] If I Were A Carpenter
Perhaps it's worth mentioning that in the mid-90s a bunch of alternative bands (like Sonic Youth and Bettie Serveert) recorded a tribute-album to the Carpenters, called If I were a Carpenter...
- And it is mentioned. -- Skierpage 05:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Doubts about "Billboard" article
It is stated in the article on the Carpenters, that Karen Carpenter weight problems might have started after reading a "Billboard" article that described her as "Richard's 'chubby' sister". While this article is referred to in the 1989 tv movie, and Debbie Vaiuso, (a friend of Karen's), metioned it on a VH-1 documentary, there is also strong evidence it was Never written. Randy Schmidt, (music teacher and Carpenters' fan), wrote the book; "Yesterday Once More", (2000), which lists many of the articles written about the Carpenters from 1971 to 1998. It does not have the "Rolling Stone" review; "The family that plays together", and it does not have the "Billboard" article that describes Karen as "chubby". According to Mr. Schmidt: "No such article was ever written". Richard Carpenter told him that it was just put into the tv movie by the scriptwriters as "poetic licence". Ms. Vaiuso might have seen the movie and thought it was based on a real incident. "Billboard Magazine" also denys publishing any review that described Karen Carpenter as "chubby".204.80.61.10 15:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)Bennett Turk204.80.61.10 15:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
- Per comment above, I removed this:
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- (Her obsession with weight loss apparently began after she read a review in Billboard magazine that dubbed her "Richard's chubby sister".)
- There are some "chubby" references out there:
- Indeed, as far back as 1971, when the Carpenters were soaring on their early hits, Karen was "psychotic about her weight," an acquaintance recalls. "She had a classic pear-shaped figure -- she was chubby, and she was very self-conscious about it."
- Eric Levin, Suzanne Adelson, Gail Buchalter and Joseph Pilcher (February 21, 1983). A Sweet Surface Hid A Troubled Soul In The Late Karen Carpenter, A Victim Of Anorexia Nervosa. People Magazine.
- Looking for one when she was alive. Billboard story does not check out. Jokestress 15:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
The fictitious Billboard magazine story (mentioned in the movie) does not exist. Here is a comment Randy Schmidt made when I interviewed him recently for an article posted on the web site The Carpenters Online
In the recent interview I did with author/editor Randy Schmidt he commented that it was not Karen who was referred to as chubby - but it was Richard. Here is the direct statement which Randy made in the interview: "I absolutely love the Lester Bangs review from an early concert in San Diego - "The Carpenters and the Creeps" it's called! He was one of MANY rock critics sent to review a concert that was anything but rock. He obviously didn't get what was going on musically so he was left to make fun of the audience, their clothes and the Middle America homes from which they came. It is in this article that Richard is referred to as being "chubby" - a lot of people think Billboard called Karen "chubby" but according to Richard, it was part of Hollywood's dramatization for the TV movie." -posted by Rick Henry
[edit] "She's Out of My Life" inspired by Karen Carpenter
According to "The Carpenters, The Untold Story" by Ray Coleman; the song "She's Out of My Life", (sung by Michael Jackson and written by Tom Bahler), was inspired by Karen Carpenter breaking up with Tom Bahler after she found out that he had fathered a child with another woman.204.80.61.10 16:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC)Bennett Turk
[edit] The Nine Unreleased Karen Carpenter Solo Songs
Here are the nine Karen Carpenter solo songs, (made between 1979 to 1980), that can only be found as "bootleg copies", since there is no chance of an "official release", Richard Carpenter does not think they are good enough to warrent one. The cost of including the songs on a "official release" CD, also has to be taken into consideration. The consensus of most of the the people who have heard them is that they range from good to very good. (1) "Love making love to you", (2) "Don't try to win me back", (3) "Something's missing", (4) "Keep my lovelight burning", (5) "Midnight", (6) "Jimmy Mack", (7) "I do it for your love", (8) "Truly yours", and (9) "It's really you". Try e-bay or Carpenters' internet disscussion sites to get a copy. In addition, there are rumors that Karen Carpenter recorded "Basket case", "Church choir (Wild)", and "You're no good", but, there is no definite evidence that she did.24.195.52.131 07:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)Bennett Turk
[edit] Neutrality disputed?
Yesterday a neutrality flag was placed on the page, but this article seems neutral to me. In terms of claims about the Carpenters sales and success, I have done some research using the RIAA and other sources and pulled up the following facts:
* 8 Gold Albums and 10 Gold Singles in America. * Over 90 million records sold worldwide. * The #1 best selling American group between 1970 and 1980. * In their first year, from July 1970 to June 1971, the Carpenters had four top five hits: (Close To You, We've Only Just Begun, For All We Know, and Rainy Days & Mondays), twice as many as any other artists during that same period. * One of the best selling duos of all time, along with Simon & Garfunkel, the Everly Brothers, and Hall & Oates. * Second on the list of "Artists With The Most #2 Hits": The Carpenters had 5, Elvis Presley had 6. * Fourth on the list of "Top Charting Artists of the 70s" after Elton John, Paul McCartney and the Bee Gees. * Close To You reached number 1 on Billboard's chart just 6 weeks after its release and stayed number 1 for 4 weeks, from July 25 - August 15, 1970. The song knocked down Three Dog Night's Mama Told Me Not To Come from the #1 position (where it had been for 2 weeks), and was displaced on August 22 by Bread's Make It With You.
--User:DanielLevitin, 28, May, 2006
- Removed tag, since no reason was given here for its inclusion. Jokestress 15:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
The RIAA certifications listed above are incorrect. Below are the correct RIAA certifications.
- ALBUMS
- Close To You (album) - 2xplatinum
- Carpenters (tan album)- 4xplatinum
- A Song For You (album)- 3xplatinum
- Now And Then - 2xplatinum
- The Singles 1969-1983 - 7xplatinum
- Horizon - platinum
- A Kind Of Hush - Gold
- Christmas Portrait - platinum
- Voice Of The heart - Gold
- An Old Fashioned Christmas - Gold
- Yesterday Once More (double album compilation) - 2xplatinum
- Love Songs - Gold
- Gold: 35th Anniversary Edition - Gold
- SINGLES
- Close To You - Gold
- We've Only Just Begun - Gold
- For All We Know - Gold
- Rainy Days And Mondays - Gold
- Superstar - Gold
- Hurting Each Other - Gold
- Sing - Gold
- Yesterday Once More - Gold
- Top Of The World - Gold
- Please Mr. Postman - Gold
- VIDEOS
- Close To You: Remembering The Carpenters - Gold
- The actual total as listed currently on the RIAA web site is as follows:
- 6 mulit-platinum albums
- 2 platinum albums
- 5 gold albums
- 10 gold singles
- 1 gold video
- As of 2007 Carpenters have sold close to 140 million albums worldwide.
- posted by Rick Henry (March 3, 2007)
[edit] Photos of Karen in early 80's
I can understand that we want to document "the decline of Karen Carpenter" that lead to her death, but we have to limit the number of picture or the text becomes difficult to follow. For now, I have limited it to one because I have her death its own section. The whole "after carpenters" section also still needs work. It should be more than a timeline. -- 64.175.42.87 00:52, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
This article is much too focused on the success that Carpenters had in the US. It is not true to say that by 1975 their albums were not charting as highly as before. Indeed the 'Horizon' album was a very successful number one album in the United Kingdom during the Summer of 1975. The band's 1969 - 1973 best of also continued selling well in the UK, as did their 1978 Gold Volume 2 Best Of. Success in the UK only tailed off with the arrival of Punk / New Wave at the end of the 70s.
"Horizon" is possibly the Carpenters' biggest selling album worldwide. It charted extremely high in every country around the world - including #1 (for seven weeks) in the UK and #1 in Japan. "Horizon" was also a huge seller in the U.S. having been certified Platinum. - posted by Rick Henry
[edit] Karen Carpenter article
I applaud the decision to branch off Karen Carpenter into her own article; indeed, she was a notable subject in her own right. However, almost all of her struggle with anorexia is missing from this article. Can someone add to it? It'd be helpful. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 01:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] fan cruft links
I've moved a bunch of what appear to be nothing more than fan-site links over here.
- A&M Corner - Carpenters discussion at A&M Corner.
- Yuka's Carpenters4u.net from Japan, (Yuka Ogura, Mook info, latest news from Japan)
- [2] "Carpentersgang" (a coined German word) is the international fan site, with photo and fan club newsletter archives, vast Carpenters links page, poetry and art, and current news. Founded by Frederic Kahler.
- The Carpenters Online - fan site, (Rick Henry)
- The Carpenters Online Forum - A place for fans to talk about the music of the Carpenters.
- Carpenters - A Song For You - Including their history, discography, awards, and more.
- A Carpenters fan page, (Tony Tay)
- The Carpenters Fan Resource
- Carpenters FAQ site
- Danny's Carpenters Online Fansite
- Grant Guerrero's listings of Carpenters' albums, videos, and related projects
- Road Ode.com A website with Carpenters,(and others), tv clips -Flash player required
- Lead Sister.com A Karen Carpenter fan site
- Carpenters Connection fan site
This stuff doesn't generally belong on WikiPedia. If I accidentally moved something important, feel free to move it back. Otherwise, these should probably all just be tossed. Fan-site links are for, well, fan sites. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia. ~~ Xtifr tälk 23:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- It looks like a lot are back. Please read Wikipedia:External links, people: fan sites generally fall under the to-be-avoided category of external links. -- Scientizzle 20:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Street addresses?
Are the exact addresses of the Carpenters' houses really necessary? Perhaps just the street names is better.
