Template talk:Carolingians

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Pippinids and Arnulfings

I think the template is only confusing and uninfomative. The dates separated by slashes and the use of "Arnulf of Metz" and "After the Treaty of Verdun (843)" as headings like the other two are a little confusing and do not look good. Furthermore, you stated after your revert of my edits that Pepin of Landen and Grimoald the Elder were considered part of the wider family of Pippinids or Arnulfings. They were not Arnulfings. They may be Pippinids but the template is a Carolingian template. Pepin and Grimoald have nothing to do with the others' succession rights or heritable lands. They were not Carolingians and I don't think they should be considered as such on the template, which should be conveying accurate information in a simple, understandable, and stylistic way. I think the template, as is, just takes up space in many articles. Actually showing a clear succession of the family makes more sense that what it is currently. Do you have any suggestions for improving it while retaining the Pippinid information? Srnec 21:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Dear Srnec,

in fact there are three families: the Pippinids, the Arnulfings and the Carolingians, but in historiography they are mostly considered one "clan", as the perspective is from hindsight after the P. and A. merged. The Carolingians are sometimes considered to start with Pepin the Middle, as he combined the two lines, but strictly speaking the begin with their eponym Charles Martell, the illegitimate son of Pepin.

It is difficult to transform this into a template but IMHO both Arnulf & sons as well as Pepin the Elder & sons should be included. I will see what I can do. Str1977 08:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Much improved. Thankyou. Srnec 15:53, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

What I did is transform this clearly into a template about a family, without regard for mayors or kings. The last three titem point to three (or rather two) sub-templates about Eastern and Western Carolingians. Right now I don't know how to make the link more clear. Str1977 17:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)