Talk:Casino (film)

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Although it is set in the 20th century, Casino is at heart an epic Western movie with strong noir undercurrents.

Frankly, this is absurd. It is perhaps well-intentioned and thoughtful, but even if so, and I'm wrong about its absurdity, its still too POV in here. You can't call this an epic Western without taking a circuitous route of interpretation.

Perhaps calling it an epic Western outright is POV, but to say that calling it an epic Western is "absurd" just betrays a lack of understanding of the genre:

Epic Westerns draw from the Norse Saga technique. They tend to be long, sweeping, and complex, with often-shifting alliances. Characters are more deeply drawn than cheap shoot 'em up Westerns, sometimes acting as forces for good, sometime evil. Men are often caught in situations not of their own choosing, and must surmount fantastic difficulties. A common technique is someone who never wants to resort to violence, but is forced into it due to circumstances beyond his control.

Casino is certainly a Western; you have to be pretty myopic to miss this. It has all the elements of classic Western: the open range, the desert, endless possibilities which are thwarted by allegiances and greed, outlaws, renegades, guns, violence, murder, women, prostitutes, lawlessness, the fateful approach of "civilization". Like I said, you have to be pretty myopic to miss this much. In fact, I think Scorcese even mentions that it's an epic Western in the DVD. (I'll check...if he really does, this would be sufficient to include it with a reference.) And it's certainly an epic, spanning a lengthy time interval, involving numerous characters, complicated moral ambiguities, interconnected relationships, and certainly with a sweeping and overarching epic sensibility. You have to be pretty myopic to miss that it's an epic as well. It's an epic Western in the same way that Lawrence of Arabia and 2001 are epic Westerns, (although not set in typically Western time and place). Please note, "Western" does not just mean "mid 1800s, gunfights and saloons". "Western", like "epic", is a state of mind, and Casino inhabits the state of mind of both genres. So, I believe with some descriptive support and maybe some references to the DVD and explanation and a toning down of the POV should be enough to reinstate the claim. (The noir undercurrents are pretty obvious, too.) Revolver 18:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

From the article Western (genre): One of the results of genre studies is that some have argued that "Westerns" need not take place in the American West or even in the 19th Century, as the codes can be found in other types of movie. Hud, starring Paul Newman, and Akira Kurosawa's Shichinin no samurai (The Seven Samurai), are possible examples of these. Likewise, it has been pointed out that films set in the old American West, may not necessarily be considered "Westerns." Certainly, the "codes" of the epic Western are found in Casino. Revolver 18:42, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't able to find a Scorsese quote using "epic Western", but in the DVD commentary he describes it as a story about the "West" and the "frontier". And the editor (I believe) all but says it's a Western: "Marty always wanted to do a Western, but he never would feel comfortable filming, you know, horses and cowboys." (paraphrase) Revolver 06:06, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Story behind the story? 2 Language in Casino 3 Fiction or Non-Fiction 4 Had Enough 5 synopsis 6 Rosenthal the Jew? 7 Frank Cullotta on Casino????? 8 Wikiproject California? Are you kidding? 9 Fact/fiction section

[edit] Story behind the story?

Although the paragraphs removed on 17:15 20 January 2006 by James084 may be extraneous and not germaine to the film itself, it seems to be germaine to the topic. I found the information to be useful as it provided an insight to real life behind the story of the film. I would like to see it reinstated in an epilogue or linked if it is addressed elsewhere. Thoughts? Accurizer 14:12, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language in Casino

My favourite part was where they were talking on the phone in what seemed like perfectly normal English but the subtitles showed that they were actually talking about something completely different. That would be interesting to see in the article if anyone knows. Mithridates 12:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fiction or Non-Fiction

In the film, Nicky Santoro (who is based on Tony Spilotro), has a wife, Jennifer, and a son, Nicky Jr./Little Nicky. Did Tony Spilotro really have a wife and son? Or are Jennifer and Nicky Jr. fictional characters?

• I read the true book that the semi-true movie is based on. He did have a wife and son, and while his marriage to his wife was a shambles, he was a devoted father who, like in the movie, would go home and make breakfast for his son every morning no matter where he was. That part of the movie was true.JeffStickney

Was Dominick Santoro in his twenties during the film? It's just that Nicky said about him "Leave the kid alone!". I thought Michael Spilotro was only 6 years younger than Tony Spilotro.

Yes, Michael was 6 years younger than Tony. I think when Nicky says "Leave the kid alone", he means "Leave my kid brother alone!".

[edit] Had Enough

What dis it exactly mean, "The Bosses had had enough of Nicky"? Was it because of his reckless criminal activities Rothstein warned him about, or did they just simply want to replace him with a better candidate?

Yeah, Nicky was bringing the casino too much attention from the cops...and if you know what's good for you, you'll stop asking such questions, otherwise we'll have to whack you too. Capishe? Clarityfiend 18:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah! Hahahahahaha!! That's really funny!! But I'm really no harm. I just want to know about a movie, that's all. Anyway, you don't know who I am and where I live. Jienum 22:29, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] synopsis

This article should have an abbreviated synopsis prior in the article to the much more detailed one we have now. It's way too long to be a functional summary for someone wanting the gest of the movie. Compare with other movie articles in wikipedia.Loodog 18:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rosenthal the Jew?

Why do the bosses refer to Sam Rothstein as "The Jew"? Was Frank Rosenthal a Jewish man, or were they using the word as an insult? Jienum 20:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

According to the Frank Rosenthal article, he wasn't ethnically Jewish, but was adopted by a Jewish couple. Clarityfiend 18:08, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Frank Cullotta on Casino?????

The trivia section states that Curly, the man who shoots John Nance in the brain, was played by Frank Cullotta. Is this true!? Jienum 19:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject California? Are you kidding?

The movie is set in Nevada. Aside from being filmed in Holywood (like most US movies), what does this have to do with California?JeffStickney 03:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fact/fiction section

I've just removed the paragraph about Nicky's brother being 'finished' before being buried (while both brothers were found to be buried alive in the real-life autopsy) - in the film, both characters are seen breathing as they are buried. Squeezeweasel 15:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)