Talk:Cent (United States coin)

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Contents 1 More nickels? 2 No more pennies?? 3 Origin of Phrase 4 Size 5 Wheat Penny 6 Move? 7 Source needed 8 Rounding 9 HELP ME! 10 Composition in 2009 11 Origin of penny 12 1993 Design Change 13 Interesting link

[edit] More nickels?

The article states: "Decrease dependence on copper — the penny is 97.5% zinc, and its removal might require more nickels. The nickel is 75% copper, and copper is less abundant than zinc."

But why, exactly would we need more nickels? Cash purchases rounded to the nearest nickel that would require actual nickels to be given in change are those that end in 10¢ (“Ninety cents is your change — three quarters, one dime, and a nickel.”), 20¢, 35¢, 45¢, 60¢, 70¢, 85¢, and 95¢. In other words: 8 out of 20 transactions, or 40% of the time.

Let’s compare this to the situation we have currently, where there are 100 different possible combinations (0-99) of coin change every time you go through the checkout. You get a nickel whenever you’re owed 5-9, 15-19, 30-34, 40-44, 55-59, 65-69, 80-84, or 90-94 cents. That’s 40 times out of 100 or 40% of the time.

Eliminating pennies just eliminates pennies. It doesn’t require more of any other coins.

This should be listed in the "Arguments for preservation" list because is has been publicly put forth by lobbyists, but we should also point out that it is a fallacy.

I've removed this from the main page because it has several flaws in its logic at the moment. (There's also the "original research" issue, but I think it's fairly straightforward to derive the above probabilities and I don't really agree with this being "original research".)

Quote - "'No original research' does not prohibit experts on a specific topic from adding their knowledge to Wikipedia. On the contrary, Wikipedia welcomes the contributions of experts, as long as their knowledge is verifiable." I am an expert (Math teacher) and my knowledge is verifiable (by anyone with a 7th grade education or better).--Freshmutt 21:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

However, I think the solution is not to introduce a complicated refutation of the "Decreased dependence on copper" point. I think the solution is to remove that point entirely, with the above as an explanation here on Talk. So that's what I'm going to do.--chris.lawson 15:56, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

This should not be removed because it is one of the major arguements of those fighting the ban and has been widely disseminated by the media. It should be treated like the article on the moon-landing hoax. All of the arguements should be listed and debunked in the same space. The first 4 arguments in this section have caveats, and so should this one.--Freshmutt 18:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Here is a paragraph from a CNN story"Kolbe is from Arizona, the largest-copper producing state. The nickel is made predominantly of copper, as is the dollar coin, which he also supports. If we introduced a rounding bill, we would need more nickels. The whole proposal is special-interest lobbying at its worst," said Mark Weller, president of Americans for Common Cents.#REDIRECT --Freshmutt 00:34, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No more pennies??

I heard yesterday at a newspaper AJC that there will soon be no more pennies minted by the United States. Are they kidding?? Because newspapers are supposed to give serious news, what are they really saying?? 66.32.122.147 17:26, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

There have been many, many reports over the years that the Lincoln cent will be discontinued due to its unnecessary nature. Until the US Mint has reported something, I'd take any reports with a grain of salt. The most realistic report I heard is that they would suspend minting one-cent coins after 2009, being the 100th anniversary of the Lincoln cent. Prices for all goods would be made to round to the nearest 5 cents.

Presumably final prices, and only on cash transactions, as in Australia. If gas can be priced in tenths of cents, despite 1 cent being hte lowest denomination, there's no reason to avoid cents just because the 5-cent is now the smallest -- Nik42 04:44, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

I know I read something in the last year from the mint or the treasury denying any plans to discontinue the penny. I just looked around online and couldn't find it, though. It's possible it was an NPR interview with someone from the mint that I heard... —BenFrantzDale 04:40, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

The US mint is planning a redesign of the penny for 2009, so obviously there couldn't be any plans to discontinue the penny before that date. See Presidential_$1_Coin_Act_of_2005#Other_provisions

My personal opinion is that, rather then discontinue the 1-cent coin, the US should revalue the dollar at a rate of 1 New Dollar = 5 Old Dollars. Then we could keep the same denominations, minus the $100 and maybe $50, while gaining a more convenient value for the coins and bills Nik42 01:01, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The mint just outlawed the meltdown of pennies today, so I doubt they're planning to discontinue them any time soon. They wouldn't protect them so severely if they didn't plan on keeping them in circulation for a good long while. Frzl 15:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of Phrase

Anyone know the origin of the phrase "a penny for your thoughts"? Is this an American phrase, or did it originate outside the U.S.? Is this phrase used outside the U.S.? Thanks in advance, although I'd be surprised if anyone even sees the Penny talk page. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 16:18, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I'd be surprised if anyone read it too...especially since it should really be the 'Cent' talk page as the US has never minted a penny. ;) Oh, BTW: For an answer to your question, check here: [Origin] --70.225.75.183 01:09, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Size

Does anyone know the history of the penny's size, considering it has been constant for over 100 years, and has been adopted for the corresponding Canadian coin? Just curious, really. Xyzzyva 06:15, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

This is the only change in the pennies size, please compare Large cent (United States coin) & Cent (United States coin). Kinda borin, I know :) Joe I 01:14, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wheat Penny

We need some discussion, and a picture of the old wheat-eared cent in here. ColinKennedy 18:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move?

Why was this moved from Penny (U.S. coin)? I understand that "cent" is the official name, but we have nickel (United States coin) and not Five-cent (United States coin) and Quarter (United States coin) not Quarter-Dollar (United States coin). For that matter, the Canadian equivalent is at Penny (Canadian coin) Nik42 02:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Unless the Canadian coin is officially called a "penny" -- and due to the history of British involvement in Canada, it wouldn't surprise me if that had been the case once upon a time -- it should *also* be moved to Cent (Canadian coin).

"Nickel" and "Quarter" are official names for those respective coins in the United States.--chris.lawson 04:36, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

The US mint's page sometimes uses Quarter and sometimes Quarter-Dollar. At any rate, the point is, it seems to me that the page should be at the most common name, which is Penny. And if you're going to move Penny (Canadian coin), you should also move all the other ones (Heck, they even use Loonie and not Dollar (Canadian coin)). Isn't it Wikipedia policy to use the most common name anyways? Nik42 06:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, nickel is NOT the official name. Though it is very common, and is even used on the Mint's web page, legislation uses the term "five-cent coin", see, for example, American 5-cent Coin Design Continuity Act Nik42 07:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

IMO, an encyclopedia should use the official name. Cent, not penny. Penny (United States Coin) should redirect to Cent (United States Coin). Along those lines, Nickel should probably be 5 Cents (United States Coin) with the nickel page redirecting to it and Quarter (United States Coin) should be Quarter Dollar (United States Coin) with the quarter page redirecting to it. Bobby 15:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

That is, as you say, your opinion. However, on Wikipedia, the rule is that the most commonly used name is used. The principle is that an article's name should reflect what the reader is most likely to enter into a search engine. If we always used official terminology, we'd introduce yet another opportunity for bias. sebmol 13:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

We have this Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style, which fails to mention common names on the front page. And no, that is not "official" wikipedia policy, tho it was talked about sending it there...Anyways, there may be some conversations on the talk page or this talk page. Penny and Cent are almost head-to-head when it comes to being the common name, so with a tie, it should go to the official name. As for the others, quarters, nickel, those are common names and wikipedia is to obbsesed with google too falter from that :) Joe I 14:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

This really has nothing to do with google. The coin is called a penny by everyone I've ever heard refer to it that wasn't related to the mint or numismatics organization (and I don't know very many of the latter). Likewise, I don't know anyone that calls a penny a "cent coin" or a "one cent coin" because a cent is one hundredth of a dollar, a penny is a copper-looking small coin worth a penny (sort of, leaving material value aside). There's nothing inherently better about an official title other than that it's what is recommended by the government. In fact, preferring official over common names introduces yet another bias (in this case in favor of government policy). sebmol 02:41, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

At any rate, it's inconsistent to have Cent (United States coin) but Nickel (United States coin). I'd prefer the overwhelmingly common name "penny". Cent, in my experience, is used almost exclusively by coin-collectors Nik42 04:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source needed

Profit — The Mint has historically earned about $20 million a year on pennies, though it currently makes a loss." Someone get a source on that?

I don't have one, but it's a fairly easy fact to derive based on historical copper prices and mintage figures. Whether that falls under the definition of original research is debatable, but I would lean toward keeping it, as anyone with a calculator and an Internet connection could verify its truth in 20 minutes.--chris.lawson 01:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's a link to the us govt mint website showing it cost .81 cents to make a penny in 2000 http://www.usmint.gov/faqs/circulating_coins/index.cfm?flash=yes&action=faq_circulating_coin. The price of zinc has increased more than 6x (on the LME) since then, closing at $1.8956 last night (Oct 27 2006). I conclude that it's going to cost a lot more than a cent to make a penny now.

Actually amazingly enough the zinc in a penny is now worth slightly over 1 cent! - Anonymous Zinc Investor.

[edit] Rounding

The article (under Arguments for preservation) imples all rounding will be in the favour of the seller. A CNN article on the subject imples rounding will be to the nearest 5c. When Australia eliminated the 1c and 2c pieces all rounding was in the buyer's favour for 6 months (a government directive to encourage community acceptance). Thereafter all rounding was to the nearest 5c.

A source on the method of rounding should be available somewhere Robert Brockway 23:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HELP ME!

I need an article about those penny rolls. They also come in other varieties. THE ROLLS! 50¢ for pennies, $2 for nickels, $5 for dimes, and $10 for quarters! PLEASE HELP ME! WHAT ARE THOSE CALLED AND IS THERE AN ARTICLE ABOUT THEM?

As far as I know, they're just called "penny rolls", "nickel rolls", etc. Half-dollars come in $10 rolls and dollar coins come in $25 rolls. Nik42 09:13, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah... I know. But is there an article about them? (BTW, I'm not a user on Wikipedia)

I believe they're called "coin wrappers". If there isn't an article about them, go start one... :)

This should probably be noted in coin. -- Scott e^iπ 05:57, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Composition in 2009

The table states that pennies in 2009 will be bronze, and refers to the Presidential $1 coin act. However, that article states that there will be numismatic cents released in bronze, but implies that the rest will still be made in the same way. Also, the 2008 and 2010 listings are inconsistant. I'm going to change it and refer to the discussion, but feel free to correct me if you know more about it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.6.149.30 (talk • contribs) 20:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

From the Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005 "In 2009, numismatic cents that have the metallic copper content of cents minted in 1909 will be issued for collectors."

This is not a composition change, this is a small number of special coins that will be sold to collectors. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.6.149.30 (talk • contribs) 23:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of penny

Is it officially called the cent because "penny" used to refer to the £sd sysem that the US abandoned in pioneering decimalized currency? --SirChan 04:11, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1993 Design Change

It has recently come to my attention that between 1992 and 1993 the U.S. Mint (or Treasury?) instituted a slight change on the reverse of the cent. The "AM" in America were brought so close together as to be almost touching. At the same time, the initials "FG" were moved slightly away from the base of the Lincoln Memorial. A small number of cents minted in 1998, 1999, and 2000 were inadvertently reverted to the older design, and now have high values among coin collectors.

Is any of this information worth including here? I thought I should let someone with more experience confirm so large an addition. My sources are my own observations about the change and Ken Potter’s and About.com’s observations about the rarities. Sarregouset (Talk) 00:17, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting link

I just found this, but don't know its, um, true value. Xiner (talk, email) 18:23, 29 March 2007 (UTC)