Talk:Christopher Isherwood

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Contents 1 Chris Wood 2 "their relation ... has been described as pederastic" 3 Down There on a Visit 4 Bertrand Russell

[edit] Chris Wood

I read: Isherwood joined an extraordinary band of mystic explorers that included Aldous Huxley, Bertrand Russell, Chris Wood, John Yale and J. Krishnamurti. I haven't a clue who Chris Wood is. Chris Wood is a disambig page, but I don't see how any of the people now listed within it could be this particular Chris Wood. Thus the link only served to confuse, and I removed it. -- Hoary 05:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "their relation ... has been described as pederastic"

Everyone knows Isherwood liked boys. He said so himself --and when that book "Where Joy Presides" came out --the big joke was that it should have been called "Where Boys Reside." But that phrase in this page where it ways "their relation ... has been described as pederastic" doesn't belong on the page for lots of reasons. Here goes.

So --look at the two footnotes. One is them is to an article that says that when you look at a PHOTO of Isherwood and Bachardy, the sight of the PHOTO "ought to dispel the notion that ‘pederasty’ is purely an ancient paradigm". Well, maybe it does dispel a notion, but it doesn't "describe" "their relation" --and who thinks that someone's general interpretation of a PHOTO of two people is an interpretation of a relation. Now, someone's going to come along and say --But this was in a peer-reviewed journal, and so it would be a major crime against WP to delete it, and we can never do that. But that's not the point. The sentence in the page says "their relation ... has been described as pederastic" --it doesn't say --"A peer-reviewed scholar has looked at a photo of the two of them and concluded that the notion that pederasty is an ancient paradigm should be dispelled" --that would be completely correct --but who thinks that what someone said about a photo of Isherwood belongs in an ENCYCLOPEDIA entry about Isherwood.

So, you say, what about that other footnote --that confirms the statement, right? --Well, no it doesn't. --Follow the link, and try to find ONE word about pederasty at the linked page. There isn't any --the linked page says NOTHING to support the statement. The footnote is totally FALSE.

I expect someone will come up here and twist the argument around --and say "peer-reviewed! peer-reviewed!" -but that doesn't make this phrase intellectually honest.

The part about "raised eyebrows" in the rest of the sentence --no one doubts that. And don't forget to ask for a copy of "Where Boys Reside" Rubadubdub 17:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Norton was not discussing photography or paradigms. It is less than fair to take his turn of phrase and force upon it a verbatim interpretation that then appears to run counter to what the man said. Norton identified Isherwood's affection for DB as pederastic, and extrapolated from that to gay life in the modern world. As you indicate yourself, it is not news, since Isherwood's love of boys goes all the way back to pre-war Berlin. The glbtq quote is there to corroborate the fact that their relationship was remarkable for the difference in age, something that DB himself also mentions in the linked interview. If you would like to suggest a better phrasing for indicating that theirs was - initially at least, an intergenerational relationship, please do so. Haiduc 01:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

OK --the para one up from this one says they were 49 and 18 when they met, so why not this --"The more than thirty years age difference between them raised eyebrows" --and so on and so on as the rest of it goes now? Result --no citing of someone's idea about them in an article about something else --just the undisputed fact. No?? Rubadubdub 02:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds absolutely fine. Haiduc 03:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Down There on a Visit

is marked as published in 1962 on this page, and 1959 on the DToaV page. Im' not sure which is correct. Jasper33 07:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bertrand Russell

Isherwood joined an extraordinary band of mystic explorers that included Aldous Huxley, Bertrand Russell... Is it fair or correct to describe Bertrand Russell as a mystic explorer? Garyth123 08:24, 30 March 2007 (UTC)