Talk:Civic Platform

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How is PO a "liberal conservative" party? In my mind, liberal conservatism is the result of either 1) a conservative party that adopts some liberal policies to appeal more to voters in the centre (like the Moderate Party in Sweden; their new leader talks a lot about "exclusion" and wants tax cuts to favour low- and middle-income earners) or 2) a liberal party that adopts some conservative policies to appeal more to voters on the right (like the Liberal Party in Australia; I refer especially to their immigration policy). In my mind, PO is a liberal party (or free market liberal if you want to be more precise). Their policies and general ideology seems to me to be thoroughly liberal, with the emphasis on freedom for the individual that goes with it. Tamino 12:59, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I've just been on their website. They say they represent a "synthesis of liberal, conservative and Christian democracy" so I'll change it back to saying that the party is "liberal conservative". But I would recommend changing the name of the article to "Civic Platform", as this is their translation. In my view, the party's translation should be used - consider the confusion if the Danish party name Det Radikale Venstre (the Danish Social Liberal Party) was translated literally to "The Radical Left"! Tamino 13:09, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with the namechange - "Citizens platform" has been a permanent eyesore imho. In fact, since they translate their own name as "Civic", I think I'll do a redirect right away. Deuar 13:32, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Or maybe I won't - the name is already taken by a redirect, it appears. I'll try to implement the procedure... Deuar 13:39, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Civic Platform" or "The Civic Platform"?

Is "Platforma Obywatelska" definate or indefinate in Polish? I have always heard PO referred to as "Civic Platform" (indefinate), rather than "The Civic Platform". Tamino 20:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

...and PO refers to itself as "Civic Platform" (indefinate) on its website. Tamino 20:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

That's a bit of a hard question, actually. In Polish definate or indefinate are not so strictly defined as in english -- there's no counterparts for "the" and "a". Instead variable word endings are used. When a noun is used in a sentence, you can tell from the surrounding endings and/or the context whether it is being used as a definate or indefinate form, but when the noun is just by itself it's not clear. I'm trying to think what the convention is in articles about parties in english speaking countries, and I think it varies. Also, somehow I have a gut feeling that putting "the" in front of "Civic platform" is not right. Just "Civic platform" in the article title seems to better convey the feeling of the name, if you like. The name in polish doesn't particularly convey the notion that it's the only platform for civic expression. But that's just a vague impression I have. Deuar 21:33, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that just "Civic Platform" does sound better, and avoids implying that PO has a monopoly of representing citizens. Tamino 10:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that 'civic' relates to a city or town, 'civil' is much more general and is identified with the whole country. The name 'Platforma Obywatelska' means 'Platform of Civilians' more than 'Platform of Citizens' so I am convinced that 'Civil Platform' is the best option. Secondly platform is definite, you should use 'The Civil Platform' as far as you would use 'The Labour Party' in the same context. rabjan

I dunno - I don't think 'civic' refers particularly to a city or town, although it sometimes can. For example "civic duties", "civic expression" are not at all related to towns, but to being a `good citizen'. "Civil" on the other hand seems too vague, like "Publiczny" (public), "Urzedowy" (public/official), "Cywilny" (civillian) or "Cywilizowany" (civilized) in Polish. Deuar 20:16, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. Also, I don't understand why "platform" is necessarily definate - there is such a thing as "a platform", after all. Tamino 14:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Liberal conservative, not liberal

The issue of classifying PO has been discussed above. Although their policy platform is strongly influenced by free-market liberalism, they describe themselves on their website as "a synthesis of Liberal, Conservative and Christian-Democratic beliefs". Thus "liberal conservative" is more appropriate than liberal. They are certainly similar to other liberal conservative parties, for example the Moderate Party of Sweden. Tamino 18:47, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The current article only states their economically liberal policies - it has no mention of their Christian conservative views. It should mention why they are termed liberal conservative. Joffeloff 22:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)