Talk:Colonial mentality
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[edit] BIAS
Wikipedia is all BIAS every article about Filipinos in relation with Spain, the Mestizo in our country, statistics are all not fact. I cannot believe all this non factual things your saying about this. Excuse me please not all Filipinos favor or like Filipino-Mestizo and do not forget that Mestizo in the Philippines anything that is "MIX FILIPINO" not just Spaniard-Filipinos and please all your Statistics where on earth did you get this????
Another article with racist opinions against hispanics from Al-Andalus
The preference by the blond hair, the slim and tall women ot the blue eyes are not a consequence of the Spanish colonization in the Americas or Phillipines. This preference occurs in Japan and all the Wester World, including France, Italy or the own Spain, where the most of the population is brown. This beauty canons are not a Spanish invention.
Al-Andalus would have to criticize the prevailing canons of beauty, already from the Renaissance, and to leave his racist commentaries about the horrible nature of the Hispanics.
Gimferrer
Firstly, use spell/grammar check before you post.
Now, secondly, you've basically summed up what the article states. They are WESTERN ideals of beauty. They are not global ideals. The fact that you haven't been able to divorce these two notions demonstrates that you are indeed one who her/himself probably falls into the colonial mentality basket. Blonde hair and light eyes are the ideal of the WEST, "including France, Italy or the own Spain" as you say. But these are regions where this phenotype is common or at the very least not uncommon.
The concept of Colonial mentality to describe the ideals of a people only applies when it is a foreign population that has adopted the ideals of another people. And this is not confined to physical appearance.
Are you attempting to suggest that before the arrival of the Spanish, in the Philippines the ideal was to be mestizo? Of course not! How could the Filipino ideal of beauty of mestizo appearance date back before the Spanish, when prior to the arrival of the Spanish there were no mestizos on whom the ideal is now based on. Hence, the Filipino ideal must be a very foreign concept that was introduced to Filipinos. Just because a people (in this example Filipinos) have adopted the ideal, it doesn't mean that it the ideal is natural to them. Hence, it is not a world ideal as you suggest. It's still a WESTERN ideal, only that now it is adhered to even by nations of people that are genetically incapable of producing said idealised beauty.
Think about it. How could the Filipino ideal of beauty (the mestizo look) not be a foreign concept, when the genes needed to create such "ideal" doesn't exist in the Filipino genetic pool?
And finally, how could it be "another article with racist opinions against hispanics from Al-Andalus" since Filipinos aren't Hispanic. Al-Andalus 16:48, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I have never said that the Western canons of beauty are the only ones. Also, such beauty canons in the Wester World has been changing. That I say is that they have been extended more that others in the world and they prevail at the moment. As I said to you, most of the Spanish women are brown, but many dye her hair blond. We did not speak, therefore, of beauty canons of Spaniards. It is a beauty canon imposed to Spaniards and Latin American, not a beauty canon imposed by the Spaniards on the latinoamericans. I deny that, against which you have added to the article, the abundance of blond women in Television or any other Latin mass media, is a consequence of the Spanish colonization in the Americas. It is a consequence of mass media influence from the United States which they imitate, as the journalistic format or that detail of white, high and blond women. It is not consequence of the preaching of the spanish priests in the New Spain.
On the Philippine mestizos, I don't understand you talk about. An ideal of Philippine mestizo cannot exist, because the mestizos are very different. He is not the same a mestizo from Chinese and Spanish, a mestizo from tagalo and Chinese, or a mestizo from African and Spanish. Spanish colonization couldn't impose an ideal of Philippine mestizo, because they are very different.
Your Philippine affirmation of "the Philippine ideal must be to very foreign concept that was introduced to" is absurd, since there are not Filippinas before the Spanish colonization. There were different ethnic groups or nations, like the tagalos or the cebuanos, but nobody that we could denominate Philippine.
You also say that your hypothetical Philippine beauty canon "is still to western" canon. Have the descendants of Chinese and Spanish or the Chinese and Tagalog the same appearance than the Mexican or Spanish people? The beauty canon of the Filipinas will be, therefore, an Philippine ideal, created and maintained by own Philippine people, and non the spaniards o mexican people.
And yes, you have written in this article another sample of your racism against the Hispanics. The consideration of the Philippine persons as Hispanic or not, is another subject, their subject. The certain thing is that, in your article, you talk about to the Philippines as a country colonized by Spain and Mexico.
Ideal beauty in Japan is not having chinky eyes...Ironically, most japanese people have chinky eyes? Why not make a page about it? I bet you've seen their animes..Japanese having blonde, red, brunette, and light brown hair with big and BLUE eyes... Was japan occupied by the Westerners(prior to the American occupation after the WWII)? Maybe, but they were NOT Colonized, but why do they have this WESTERN concept of beauty?
Obviously, you are being racist to Filipinos and Latin Americans
This is an ENCYCLOPEDIA. Things should be FACTUAL and NOT Opininated. Most of your posts are opinionated. I am not against your topic on Colonial mentality, but since this is an encyclopedia, you should ONLY define what colonial mentality is, and you, too, should avoid mentioning countries or nationalities.
If Gimferrer sees Filipins as Hispanic, fine. No argument with that since it is udeniable that Spain has somehow influenced the Filipinos(although not as much as in Latin America). If he sees Filipinos as asians, let be it since Filipinos are culturally Asian, too. Most Spanish-Mestizos in the Philippines consider theirselves Asians, and not hispanics and many of them, too do not speak Spanish anymore except for those rich Spanish businessmen.
Laloy 12:07, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Hmmm, Laloy, interesting point. But remember, Filipinos do tend to have these issues. Many Pinoys I have met insist that they have Spanish blood. They show me their beautiful celebrety pictures. Many look Spanish. Also, Many Japanese do not have so called "Chinky eyes". This word itself is racist if you insist that you are not racist and accuse other of being racist. Remember that Pinoys are Asians.
[edit] WTH
Eventhough I'm not really Filipino (I'm Chinese), I still have to defend my country which I live in at the moment. Just because many Filipinos claim to be or to have Hispanic lineage, you suddenly have to make it all controversial? That's not right. I have some idea you might be White or Hispanic. If you are White, well, I must say that this is natural for you to take part in racial discrimination. Although I'm only a kid, I already know about the White dicriminating the Negroes... And if you are Hispanic, maybe you're just looking down too much on us Filipinos. I KNOW Filipinos are Malays.. but is it their fault if Magellan comes conquering our land, claiming it as theirs, along with the Filipinas? So yea.. You can't say they're JUST Malays... Actually, most of the Filipinos here really does have Hispanic blood. Hell with the research you did. Most of them are inaccurate anyway. =_= It's better that you go here and take a look for yourself. Stop being so judgemental.
[edit] Edited
I removed the part where it shows it states the the colonial mentality in the Philippines and Latin America. This is an online encyclopedia, so I think we should stick to the DEFENTITION. Colonial mentality does NOT only occur in the Philippines and Latin America
[edit] REVERTED
I have put everything back to normal for Laloy is vandalizing everything about the Philippines. He is thinking that Filipinos are like Americans. Mix of everything and Caucasian. There is Colonial Mentality in the Philippines. Please do not erase this!
I am NOT making the Filipinos like Americans. Most things written here are not NPOV but the APOV. Go read some books written both by Filipino and non-Filipino Historians, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. I do not deny that Colonial Mentality does exist in the Philippines, but why is it that the topic on CM is concentrated VERY MUCH on the Philippines and Latin America. Where's the neutrality there? Laloy 22:14, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Back to Normal Again
We need to seriously think about Laloy's action here in Wikipedia for he is vandalizing every articles based on his fantisy.
[edit] on our film industry
Of the current Philippine demographics; Caucasian-based mestizos account for only 1%, those with significant amounts of Chinese ancestry to be classified as Chinese-mestizos are estimated at around 2%, while unmixed native Filipinos constitute 95% and number over 80 million.
The biased favouritism responsible for their overwhelming presence in film and television is deeply-rooted on established Filipino "Ideals of Beauty" that are determine based on the possession of at least partial European ancestry, an ideal that stems from colonial concepts first introduced by over 300 years of Spanish colonial rule, then by a further generation of Anglo-American occupation.
I just want to be brief as there is no need for me to give examples of pure pinoy and mestizo movie stars. Sure, our film industry has a biased favoritism to white skin and western looks, but to say that "caucasian and chinese mestizos have an overwhelming presence" in our tv and film industry is not true. A few of our most famous personalities are mixed but that is the exception not the norm. Apart from the latter, most of our entertainers are light skinned "unmixed native" filipinos, just like many pure pinoys, some share features that might give the impression that they are mestizos but they are not. Watch other asian channels like indonesian tv, they have many light skin newsreaders, some don't even look like classic javanese but they dont claim to be of mixed ancestry. I might be wrong to judge you on your article but it seems you're saying that only mestizos and not "unmixed native" filipinos meet "ideals of beauty" criteria. Whether they bleach their skin or falsely claim mixed ancestry is another matter. That part would probably go in the "IMSCF" article section.
[edit] ?
Why very predudice againsts hispanics and philippinos?
In singapore, majority of the population is chinese. the ideal of beauty there is having big eyes, same case with japan. I think it would be colonial mentality, too.
[edit] Definition of Colonial Mentality
Gimferrer, colonial mentality has a definition, and it is stated in the article. Yet you have still reverted the article and reinserted "willing within one nation to expand its own culture and its political and economic control in other countries" as an alternate meaning. I am very sorry Gimferrer, but what you keep on trying to insert into the article is the definiion of Colonialism, and it already has an article. There is no getting around the definition with your constant nonsense trying to cloud it.
As for the edit summary which accompanied your revert, I just ask you what in the discussion page are you refering to? "REc inf eliminted by Al-Andalus (See discussion page)", There is nothing here. You have not posted anything new on this discussion page. Al-Andalus 19:45, 7 December 2005 (UTC).
[edit] Too much about skin lightening
Does anyone agree with me that this article talks a little too much about skin lightening? Is that the defining hallmark of a colonial mentality? Or should a lot of that information move to Skin whitening? I've just created redirects to this page for Slave mentality, Serf mentality, Peasent mentality. Maybe the article could be morphed into a more general article discussing the other "subjugated" mentalities? Ewlyahoocom 12:57, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
- What about Thai people: they've never been colonized -- so why do they love that white skin? Ewlyahoocom 17:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
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- The rule of thumb on this worldwide is that a darker complexion has traditionally meant that you're a peasant -- has to work outside in the sun all day, while a lighter complexion means that you're an aristicrat -- can sit indoors all day eating sherbet with somebody fanning you, and if you do go to visit the Prince or something you ride in a sedan chair. -- 201.78.233.162 04:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- According to whom is this the rule of thumb? You? Not good enough. Moreover, if this is so, then why is there a multibillion industry in the West (the majority of whose population is currently "white") for various skin-darkening procedures and treatments (not to mention various other procedures to enhance other physical features associated with "non whites")? Poisoning oneself with arsenic to get that ghostly white complexion went out of fashion among European aristocrats during the 18th century, and the Victorian bustle eroticized a model of feminine beauty that few European women could achieve naturally (the combination of full bottoms, small waists, and ample chests were previously considered to be traits of "primitive" [read: non-European] women). The trend continues. Also, many Asian societies valued white skin long before Europeans (whom they called hairy barbarians) establised sustained contact; Northern Chinese, Koreans and Japanese tend to have "white" complexions. That said, this article is far too slanted toward "racial" discourse. There are many forms of ethnocentrism, and most of them have nothing to do with "race" since ethnocentrism and imperialism have existed for thousands of years, while racism (an extreme form of ethnocentrism) is a rather new ideology. Kemet 02:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
- The rule of thumb on this worldwide is that a darker complexion has traditionally meant that you're a peasant -- has to work outside in the sun all day, while a lighter complexion means that you're an aristicrat -- can sit indoors all day eating sherbet with somebody fanning you, and if you do go to visit the Prince or something you ride in a sedan chair. -- 201.78.233.162 04:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Former Soviet Union
It seems to me that the example for the former Soviet Union is at least controversial if not outright wrong. Ukraine has never been a colony, but an integral part of the Russian empire, and the eastern parts of Ukraine (where the Russian language is used the most extensively) had already been a part of Russia when a great number of Ukrainian peasants settled these lands fleeing from the Polish yoke in the mid-XVII.
If there are no objections, I think that this part should be removed as inaccurate.
[edit] About TV Azteca (White TV)
I just made an account because the affirmation about TV Azteca is completely wrong. As a mexican I never heard someone talking like that about TV Azteca, actually is the complete opossite, most people refer to TV Azteca as "TV Naca", "TV Chichimeca", the public perception is that TV Azteca has more dark skinned actors, way more than Televisa. The ratio is still towards whites, but again, some people, including magazines and media people enfatize that about TV Azteca. Several publications use those names when talking about "La Academia" winners, Toñita and Erasmo Catarino. I feel that article part was made by a non-mexican, clearly because of the TV Azteca reference, and the cowardly us of "unmixed European" clearly of fear that many of the white actors have indeed indigenous heritage. Terms like "mostly indegenous" and "mostly European" are better
[edit] what's the obsession with "race"?
Putting aside the fact that the very notion is a fallacy from the 15th century, why is there all this focus on people of different races? How about Irish people who try to act more English to get into the yacht club, or Madonna going through her English accent phase! Colonial mentality is not about skin colour alone! Miken32 15:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, racism is not just against races, but also against ethnies/cultures.
[edit] Philippines' Dislike/Distaste of Things Indian/Desi
Colonial mentality is also a main reason why Philippines' has a dislike towards India and things Indo-Pak/Desi/South Asian, whereas other countries in Southeast Asia are into things Indian besides Chinese. And I'm embarassed of this b/c I'm a Filipino who is into things Bollywood/Desi. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.161.92.188 (talk) 21:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC).
